Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:34 AM
Spoons is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 19,662

Mods, when moderating, could you please post in black and white?


I ask, because I am color-blind, and the recent move towards the red color by the mods, when moderating, makes things difficult to see, for me. In fact, it's damn near impossible. Can we just go back to:

[Moderating]

That will get you a warning, because something-something-something.

[/Non-moderating]

Thanks.

Last edited by Spoons; 12-06-2019 at 04:36 AM.
  #2  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:44 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 27,157
They put it in because people asked for it.

Can't you just set your monitor to greyscale?
  #3  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:53 AM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,778
I saw this coming, is there a color that would work for the color blind?
Maybe sienna, sienna is nice...or raw umber.

CMC fnord!
  #4  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:01 AM
galen ubal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Central VIC Australia
Posts: 2,827
How about both?
__________________
Salvator apiae.
  #5  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:27 AM
Spoons is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 19,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds View Post
I saw this coming, is there a color that would work for the color blind?
Well, black-on-white works just fine from where I sit. Easy to read.
  #6  
Old 12-06-2019, 06:04 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 27,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoons View Post
Easy to read.
Easy to say "I never saw that", too.
  #7  
Old 12-06-2019, 06:17 AM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoons View Post
Well, black-on-white works just fine from where I sit. Easy to read.
It's easy to read if you are reading every post carefully. It's easy not to notice if you are browsing a longer thread. It's far easier to notice that there is a mod not on this page if it's a different color.
  #8  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:53 AM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoons View Post
Well, black-on-white works just fine from where I sit. Easy to read.
Well, black-on-white doesn't work just fine from where the mods sit. Easy to miss.
You could help by telling them what color, other that black, you can see easily or it'll be red.

CMC fnord!

Last edited by crowmanyclouds; 12-06-2019 at 07:54 AM.
  #9  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:01 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,446
Spoons, can you actually read the text in red, or does it blend into the background? If you can read it fine, and it's just that it doesn't stand out as different than normal text, then ISTM the obvious solution would be to keep it in red text (since many others find that so useful) while still adding the "MODERATING" tags or equivalent. Would that work for you?
  #10  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:08 AM
Joey P is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 29,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Spoons, can you actually read the text in red, or does it blend into the background? If you can read it fine, and it's just that it doesn't stand out as different than normal text, then ISTM the obvious solution would be to keep it in red text (since many others find that so useful) while still adding the "MODERATING" tags or equivalent. Would that work for you?
I don't know if this would be helpful to the OP since I'm not colorblind, but, when I'm reading a website that for one reason or another has text that's abnormally hard to read, I highlight it. If you highlight it, you have highlighted background with the text (almost always) a new color.

Testing this out, on my computer, with my settings, on this page, with the SD theme, red text on a white background, changes to white text on a blue background.

Not the most elegant solution, and it would certainly be easier to have text that's easier to read in the first place, but possibly a quick workaround.

Last edited by Joey P; 12-06-2019 at 08:08 AM.
  #11  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:35 AM
Johnny Bravo's Avatar
Johnny Bravo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 7,885
Heh, I was getting ready to make a thread thanking the mods who have moved to posting in red.
  #12  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:38 AM
Jragon's Avatar
Jragon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 10,712
Here's a colorblind simulator on a mod note:

https://www.toptal.com/designers/col...cess_type=grey

Notably, all the major variations of colorblindness except Tritanopia have somewhat hard to read text. Monochromacy is rare, but it's so faded and gray it's almost unreadable. In Protanopia it's this really faded marigold color that is hard to focus on. Deutanopia is a little better but has this odd orange-on-orange look that makes it not stand out very well.

I'm gonna make a rainbow wheel real quick just to do a test:

Text Text Text Text Text Text Text Text Text Text Text Text

Either way, when designing for accessibility, it's usually best to also give non-color signifies that stand out.

������ For instance surrounding mod action in an emoji (this one is just the first I thought of probably not the best) ������ (E: looks like the board mangles UTF-8 emoji so nm I guess)

Or perhaps underlining all mod text

In addition to the coloration would help colorblind and vision impaired users the most.

E: It looks like COLOR="Blue" is best for most forms, except monochromacy where COLOR="DarkRed" is best.

Last edited by Jragon; 12-06-2019 at 08:42 AM.
  #13  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:50 AM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
They put it in because people asked for it.

Can't you just set your monitor to greyscale?
You might want to re-read the OP, a little slower this time.
  #14  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:06 AM
Defensive Indifference is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 7,427
Underlining (as suggested above) or posting in a different/larger font might do the trick.
  #15  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:11 AM
Johnny Bravo's Avatar
Johnny Bravo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 7,885
Are there any colorblind-friendly themes?
  #16  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:13 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 27,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
You might want to re-read the OP, a little slower this time.
What do you think I missed?
  #17  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:14 AM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Just outside of Titletown
Posts: 23,376
I think we should bring back the [blink] tag.
  #18  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:15 AM
Jragon's Avatar
Jragon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miskatonic University
Posts: 10,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
I think we should bring back the [blink] tag.
Enable HTML and use <marquee> you cowards
  #19  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:38 AM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
What do you think I missed?
OP is colorblind... how did you think it would be helpful for a colorblind person to set their monitor to greyscale?
  #20  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:45 AM
Jonathan Chance is online now
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 23,303
How many of us are actually using the red color? I know ECG does it. Is anyone else?
  #21  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:51 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 27,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
OP is colorblind... how did you think it would be helpful for a colorblind person to set their monitor to greyscale?
Colourblindness isn't just seeing in greyscale, Setting the colour to greyscale might offer a variant contrast than actual colourblindness provides.
  #22  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:54 AM
Thudlow Boink's Avatar
Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 28,144
Does there exist a browser plug-in for colorblind people that renders hard-to-read text easier for them to see?
  #23  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:03 AM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Colourblindness isn't just seeing in greyscale, Setting the colour to greyscale might offer a variant contrast than actual colourblindness provides.
It would also eliminate any colors that they aren't blind to, on their entire monitor. Not really a good idea.

The mods should use the text cues as they did before, and put them in a colored font for whoever wants that. Add, don't subtract.
  #24  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:32 AM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 13,231
I don't know which mods are using the "red" to make notes, but I agree it's really helpful. OP - would adding the "moderating" tags help or not?
  #25  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:54 AM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,954
Literally OP asked to add the text tags again.

Mods could make everyone happy by using the same text tags they used to, AND put them in a colored font.

Am I taking crazy pills? Why is everybody determined that adding color contrast definitely requires removing non-colored accessibility cues?
  #26  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:05 AM
Joey P is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 29,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
Literally OP asked to add the text tags again.

Mods could make everyone happy by using the same text tags they used to, AND put them in a colored font.

Am I taking crazy pills? Why is everybody determined that adding color contrast definitely requires removing non-colored accessibility cues?
I read the OP as Spoons wanting the tags, but not the colored font, since he can't see the colored font (and he asked if we 'could go back to:').

You're never going to make everyone happy. That's why I asked if he could read the text if he highlights it. That way the people that wanted the red text to make it more visible still get that and the people that have a hard time reading the red text might be able to read it as well.
  #27  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:25 AM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 19,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Enable HTML and use <marquee> you cowards
I see you, too, are a gentleperson of the world.
Next item on our agenda : mouse cursor trails, and why we need the longest possible.

Last edited by Kobal2; 12-06-2019 at 11:26 AM.
  #28  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:38 AM
Jasmine's Avatar
Jasmine is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,457
Many Types of Color Blindness

This is an interesting article on the condition of color blindness. The gist of it is that there are so many forms of the condition that there is no set color formula regarding color usage that can accommodate all who suffer from the condition.

Here's an interesting article on web sites accommodating the color blind.

Improving Web Accessibility For Color-Blind Users
__________________
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge."
--Daniel J Boorstin

Last edited by Jasmine; 12-06-2019 at 11:38 AM.
  #29  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:38 AM
Skywatcher's Avatar
Skywatcher is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Potomac
Posts: 35,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Enable HTML and use <marquee> you cowards
The board did use HTML tags during the first few months; HTML got disabled when it started being used for nefarious purposes.

cite

Last edited by Skywatcher; 12-06-2019 at 11:41 AM.
  #30  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:42 AM
Calavera's Avatar
Calavera is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
I read the OP as Spoons wanting the tags, but not the colored font, since he can't see the colored font (and he asked if we 'could go back to:').

You're never going to make everyone happy. That's why I asked if he could read the text if he highlights it. That way the people that wanted the red text to make it more visible still get that and the people that have a hard time reading the red text might be able to read it as well.
Yeah Spoons was definitely trying to "roll back" a feature that most people prefer. He wasn't in any way advocating for Red text+tags, he wanted black text, (tags optional). Red text+tags may be an improvement but red text, with or without tags, is definitely better than black+tags.
  #31  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:58 AM
crowmanyclouds's Avatar
crowmanyclouds is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ... hiding in my room ...
Posts: 4,778
Folks it's not that complicated,
Posters got notes/warnings.
Posters complained that they didn't see the mod instructions.
Posters suggested that mod instructions be made easier to see.
ECG started to post their mod instructions in red . . . WITH STANDARD TEXT INDICATIONS THAT THEY WERE MOD INSTRUCTIONS.
Colorizing mod instructions is not being adopted in lieu of standard text indicators.
Spoons complained that, being colorblind, red mod instructions are hard to see.
Other solutions; bolding, font changes*, etc, of mod instructions is not a solution because they do not stand out enough when scrolling through and not reading a thread. If it isn't colored it's just black text on a white background.
(*My browser is set to use a default font so I wouldn't notice a font change.)
It's exceedingly rare for anyone to post in color so colorizing mod instructions would seem to be an ideal solution.

THE QUESTION SHOULD BE, 'IF MODS COLORIZE THEIR MOD INSTRUCTIONS, WHAT IS THE BEST COLOR'!

CMC fnord!
  #32  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:59 AM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
You're never going to make everyone happy.
[Demonstrating]

Actually you can, at least in this case. Look, I'm doing it right now.

[/Demonstrating]
  #33  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:05 PM
Johnny Bravo's Avatar
Johnny Bravo is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 7,885
[Demonstrating]

I think this would be better for a color-blind individual, otherwise they'd miss the tags as well. Then they can highlight for better contrast.

[/Demonstrating]
  #34  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:34 PM
HMS Irruncible is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,954
That's a great suggestion. Tons of ways to approach it if we're willing to think about it.
  #35  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:43 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is offline
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 43,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
How many of us are actually using the red color? I know ECG does it. Is anyone else?
I've started using it for mod instructions that apply to the thread in general. Not for thread moves or other housekeeping notes.

As suggested, I guess I could start bolding the "Mod Instructions" header while leaving it in black-and-white, while just putting the text in red. That way people like the OP could just select the text to make it more visible (I hope).

HOWEVER, I HAVE HAD PEOPLE MISS MOD NOTES POSTED IN FONTS LIKE THIS

Last edited by Colibri; 12-06-2019 at 12:46 PM.
  #36  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:09 PM
Miller's Avatar
Miller is offline
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 44,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
[Demonstrating]

Actually you can, at least in this case. Look, I'm doing it right now.

[/Demonstrating]
Pretty sure that still doesn't work for Spoons.
  #37  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:11 PM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 36,446
What we need is a font with a black outline and red interior, or vice versa!
  #38  
Old 12-06-2019, 01:32 PM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 20,468
One workaround for Spoons ó though it requires that he recognize there's a mod note in the first place ó is to highlight the hard-to-read text by dragging the mouse across it. White-on-blue is presumably easier to read than red-on-white.
  #39  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:47 PM
D'Anconia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,740
There is simply no way to accommodate everyone, every time.
  #40  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:48 PM
Lare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: My spot: 0,0,0,0
Posts: 1,093
Ooops, accidentally double posted. Deleted

Last edited by Lare; 12-06-2019 at 02:50 PM.
  #41  
Old 12-06-2019, 02:50 PM
Lare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: My spot: 0,0,0,0
Posts: 1,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
[Demonstrating]
I think this would be better for a color-blind individual, otherwise they'd miss the tags as well. Then they can highlight for better contrast.

[/Demonstrating][/B]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
Pretty sure that still doesn't work for Spoons.
Umm, then perhaps this?

[Demonstrating II]

[MOD NOTE:]It still gives a red clue to the majority of readers and still has the mod info for those who would have been in the same boat had there been no color changes at all.


[/Demonstrating II]
  #42  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:19 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,109
How about alternating colors?
  #43  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:36 PM
kopek's Avatar
kopek is offline
born to be shunned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 15,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
Heh, I was getting ready to make a thread thanking the mods who have moved to posting in red.
Great minds think alike.

In the greater scheme of things I think the good far outweighs the bad on this one.
  #44  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:33 PM
digs's Avatar
digs is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: West of Wauwatosa
Posts: 10,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference View Post
Underlining (as suggested above) or posting in a different/larger font might do the trick.
I'd notice bold, larger, and in a dark-but-not-black color (like burgundy instead of red?)...

But if I get a mod note in pink Comic Sans ...
I'm going out my way to not notice it.
  #45  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:40 PM
Skywatcher's Avatar
Skywatcher is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Somewhere in the Potomac
Posts: 35,590
I wonder if this would work.
  #46  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:16 PM
kopek's Avatar
kopek is offline
born to be shunned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southwestern PA
Posts: 15,990
I remember AOL having a font for e-mails back in the day where all the letters were made of bones. If they had some skull-like mark for the end of sentences -------
  #47  
Old 12-06-2019, 06:36 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 29,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
Are there any colorblind-friendly themes?
Part of the problem is that there is more than one form of color deficiency. There is no one scheme that works for all of them.

Which makes me wonder about colorblindness on this forum. Think I might do a poll in MPSIMS.
  #48  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:56 PM
Spoons is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 19,662
Some great comments and suggestions here. Thanks, all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
[Demonstrating]

I think this would be better for a color-blind individual, otherwise they'd miss the tags as well. Then they can highlight for better contrast.

[/Demonstrating]
A number of people have suggested highlighting the red text, and if the consensus is that mod instructions should be in red, then I think Johnny put it best: [Mod instruction] in black, followed by red text, followed by [/Mod instruction]. That way, I can find the red text, highlight it, and read it as white on blue.

Thanks again, folks. Highlighting the text works well for me.
  #49  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:43 PM
kayaker's Avatar
kayaker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rural Western PA
Posts: 33,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
There is simply no way to accommodate everyone, every time.
Except for me, oddly enough. I'm not sure exactly why, nor am I complaining.
  #50  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:09 PM
Loach's Avatar
Loach is offline
The Central Scrutinizer
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pork Roll/Taylor Ham
Posts: 25,799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
How many of us are actually using the red color? I know ECG does it. Is anyone else?
I have not and I wasnít planning to. Lately Iíve been on the site 90% of the time while on my phone. Itís not very conducive to doing anything fancy with colors or fonts especially with the mobile skin.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017