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  #1  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:01 PM
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CNN Reports people claiming Warren was told by Sanders that a woman can't win.


Warren is staying silent about the incident. Why doesn't she speak up and tell us the truth?

Seriously. Break your silence Warren. Be honest.

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said."

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...win-presidency
  #2  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:15 PM
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Maybe Sanders never said anything to Warren at that event/meeting/whatever? Maybe Warren doesn't want to perpetuate fake bullshit in any manner? Maybe we should stop letting people stir the pot in our national politics?

I seriously doubt Sanders said any such thing.

Warren is in no way obligated to say anything on anything, but particularly she has a right to remain silent about something that never happened.
  #3  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:15 PM
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Warren is staying silent about the incident. Why doesn't she speak up and tell us the truth?

Seriously. Break your silence Warren. Be honest.
Aren't we taking this a wee bit overseriously?

I mean, it's like those instructions for the Sanders volunteers when asked about Warren. Warren gave a low-key response and that should be the end of it. We don't need a massive investigation into how those instructions came into being; they were misguided IMHO, but just not that big a deal.

Same with this. Sheesh.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:18 PM
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Aren't we taking this a wee bit overseriously?

I mean, it's like those instructions for the Sanders volunteers when asked about Warren. Warren gave a low-key response and that should be the end of it. We don't need a massive investigation into how those instructions came into being; they were misguided IMHO, but just not that big a deal.

Same with this. Sheesh.
can you link to the store you're talking about? I might have missed it. I've been out of the loop for a long time.

If it's no big deal why does CNN report it? It seems they like trying to find the smallest thing on Sanders, but ignore the other candidates follies.

by the way I'm trying to keep an open mind, so maybe you have information I don't know about.

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Old 01-13-2020, 04:20 PM
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Warren is in no way obligated to say anything on anything, but particularly she has a right to remain silent about something that never happened.
Perhaps you're right. But I think Sanders would clear up any misconceptions if the shoe was on the other foot.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:32 PM
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Warren is staying silent about the incident. Why doesn't she speak up and tell us the truth?

Seriously. Break your silence Warren. Be honest.

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said."

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...win-presidency
"Break your silence"? Didn't this story get posted a couple hours ago?
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:33 PM
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Maybe Sanders didn't say it as a commentary on Warren's qualifications. May he said it as cynical commentary of the last election where a highly competent and imminently qualified woman lost to an orange assclown.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:36 PM
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"Break your silence"? Didn't this story get posted a couple hours ago?
I didn't see it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:38 PM
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I'm genuinely unclear why I should care.
  #10  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:42 PM
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I'm genuinely unclear why I should care.
Seriously?

I mean... If you don't care, you don't care. Are you saying others shouldn't care? If so, maybe your right. Apparently there's another thread on this so you can erase this one if you want.

I guess I thought it was a bigger deal than it was.

It is silly. I'll give you that.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:47 PM
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I didn't see it.
That's what I'm saying. It's brand new. You're acting like this got posted last week and Warren is ducking reporters on it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:49 PM
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Maybe Sanders didn't say it as a commentary on Warren's qualifications. May he said it as cynical commentary of the last election where a highly competent and imminently qualified woman lost to an orange assclown.
This is how I see it as well. I don't believe for one moment that Bernie is misogynistic. It's more like he was telling it like it is - that a woman still faces disadvantages vis-a-vis Trump that a man wouldn't, and would get less votes from the American electorate.

No more homophobic than saying a gay man can't win or atheist-phobic for saying an atheist can't win.
  #13  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:51 PM
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There is no way this is disinformation spread for the purpose of dividing the Democratic base! NO WAY!

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-13-2020 at 04:51 PM.
  #14  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:57 PM
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So can we agree that CNN does sh*t reporting?

If this isn't news, why is it news?

Last edited by MyFootsZZZ; 01-13-2020 at 05:01 PM.
  #15  
Old 01-13-2020, 05:00 PM
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That's what I'm saying. It's brand new. You're acting like this got posted last week and Warren is ducking reporters on it.
I see what you're saying... I honestly didn't know how new the story was. I should check dates more often. but yes you're probably right and I probably overreacted.

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  #16  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:00 PM
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Aren't we taking this a wee bit overseriously?

I mean, it's like those instructions for the Sanders volunteers when asked about Warren. Warren gave a low-key response and that should be the end of it. We don't need a massive investigation into how those instructions came into being; they were misguided IMHO, but just not that big a deal.

Same with this. Sheesh.
That story was completely fake, and Warren fell for it. Perhaps that has made her more hesitant to comment. The Sanders' campaign makes its people sign a pledge and take a test, aimed at making sure they don't even mention other candidates.
  #17  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:12 PM
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Maybe Sanders didn't say it as a commentary on Warren's qualifications. May he said it as cynical commentary of the last election where a highly competent and imminently qualified woman lost to an orange assclown.
Well, that woman DID get more votes than the man opposing her. Surely Sanders would have been aware of that little fact, which makes the CNN story less credible.



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There is no way this is disinformation spread for the purpose of dividing the Democratic base! NO WAY!
I've no doubt that this sort of thing gets put up on the assignment board at the St. Petersburg and Cyprus troll farms: "HIT THIS HARD TODAY" and so on.

But it's also about journalists (or perhaps "journalists") getting career points when they tempt one candidate into making rude remarks about another candidate. Score!!!!

Of such "scoops" are promotions and pay-raises made. So we can expect to see plenty more where this came from.
  #18  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:12 PM
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Here's the original CNN story.

For the record, the story doesn't say anything about how Warren herself is or is not responding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN
Warren's communications director Kristen Orthman declined to comment.
  #19  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:17 PM
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Maybe Sanders didn't say it as a commentary on Warren's qualifications. May he said it as cynical commentary of the last election where a highly competent and imminently qualified woman lost to an orange assclown.
(Emphasis added.) ISWYDT, I think.
  #20  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:28 PM
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Here's the original CNN story.

For the record, the story doesn't say anything about how Warren herself is or is not responding.
A communications staffer declining to comment is often the worst thing to do. Allows the media to continue to rumble on knowing it's not being denied by the side who have the most credibility to call bullshit on it.
  #21  
Old 01-13-2020, 07:54 PM
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Warren says he did.

https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/sta...80503967637504

Quote:
Among the topics that came up was what would happen if democrats nominated a female candidate. I thought a woman could win; he disagreed.
Sanders denies it.

Someone is lying.

Last edited by Boycott; 01-13-2020 at 07:54 PM.
  #22  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:33 PM
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Warren says he did.

https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/sta...80503967637504



Sanders denies it.

Someone is lying.
Uh oh.
  #23  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:48 PM
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No one will mention the elephant in the room.

That Bernie is right. He just shouldn't have said it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:51 PM
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Warren says he did.

https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/sta...80503967637504



Sanders denies it.

Someone is lying.
Not necessarily. They may be remembering it very differently. What he intended to express and what she understood him to say aren't necessarily the same.

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No one will mention the elephant in the room.

That Bernie is right. He just shouldn't have said it.
That idea isn't right, which is why nobody is mentioning it.
  #25  
Old 01-13-2020, 08:55 PM
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This is just the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for!
  #26  
Old 01-13-2020, 09:04 PM
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This is just the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for!
How does that joke make sense?
  #27  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:21 PM
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Warren says he did.

https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/sta...80503967637504

Sanders denies it.

Someone is lying.
Someone also lied about being Native American for half their life. Just thought I’d throw that in there. Y’know, for context...
  #28  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:33 PM
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Some folks on TV were trying to milk a story out of this. I don't see it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:39 PM
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How does that joke make sense?
Well, for one thing, I'm a Democrat and I'd vote for McCain if he ran against Trump. Even if he was still dead.
  #30  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:55 PM
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Someone also lied about being Native American for half their life. Just thought I’d throw that in there. Y’know, for context...
This post is calumnious bullshit.
  #31  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:32 PM
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Obviously the critical issue is which of them was wearing a tan suit at the time.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:43 PM
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AFAIK the only pronoun used to reference a President in the US Constitution is "he". The ERA has not been ratified. Are women ineligible to be POTUS? Have courts ruled on this?
  #33  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:35 AM
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This post is calumnious bullshit.
False.
  #34  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:48 AM
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How does that joke make sense?
In that this "story" is a nothingberder that's being ginned up by the media so they can promote the campaign as an acrimonius horse-race rather than being between people who have far more in common with each other than they do disagreements

Last edited by Smapti; 01-14-2020 at 12:50 AM.
  #35  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:04 AM
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False.
You made the claim. You back it up.
  #36  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:30 AM
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You made the claim. You back it up.
Elizabeth Warren listed her race as ‘American Indian’ on a state bar of Texas census form. Elizabeth Warren is the whitest white woman ever. Ergo, she lied about her race. This is supported by the following facts:

1) According to her own DNA test, her closest NA relative was between 6 and 10 generations away. Let’s split the difference and say 8. That means you’d have to follow Warren’s family tree back to (literally!) her great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents to find an actual Native American.

2). In 2019, Warren formally apologised for ever calling herself Native American. Money quote:

” Warren, asked in a brief interview Tuesday if she’d intended the apology to include labeling herself as Native American when at the University of Pennsylvania and at Harvard University, replied “yes.” She gave the same response when asked if it included labeling herself as a minority in the Association of American Law Schools directory.”

Either Warren lied, or she’s a fucking idiot who doesn’t know what race she is. Personally, I think the more charitable option is that she lied. Clearly, you think she’s a fucking idiot, which I think is a little harsh.

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  #37  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:58 AM
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If Sanders said it, he wasn't being misogynistic in that he was saying that these little dears should stay home and make meatloaf. If he said it, he was commenting on the current state of politics of how voters might perceive a woman running for president.

Of course, he is wrong as Hillary was within tens of thousands of votes in a few key states of winning. But being wrong doesn't mean what the story is implying.

If I'm wrong about that, what is this horrible thing that Sanders has done?

Last edited by UltraVires; 01-14-2020 at 02:58 AM.
  #38  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:35 AM
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The MSM is trying to knock Sanders out in favor of Bloomberg or Warren. Google "The Bernie Blackout" for examples.
  #39  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:21 AM
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Well, after 2016 I realized a woman candidate would have more hoops to jump through to get to the finish line in a national election, compared to a man. I don't like it but I think I see it.
I do agree Bernie should probably not have said that out loud (but then again, since I wasn't there to pick up his tone, for all I know he could have expressed his frustration over this fact)
  #40  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:33 AM
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Elizabeth Warren listed her race as ‘American Indian’ on a state bar of Texas census form. Elizabeth Warren is the whitest white woman ever. Ergo, she lied about her race. This is supported by the following facts:

1) According to her own DNA test, her closest NA relative was between 6 and 10 generations away. Let’s split the difference and say 8. That means you’d have to follow Warren’s family tree back to (literally!) her great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents to find an actual Native American.

2). In 2019, Warren formally apologised for ever calling herself Native American. Money quote:

” Warren, asked in a brief interview Tuesday if she’d intended the apology to include labeling herself as Native American when at the University of Pennsylvania and at Harvard University, replied “yes.” She gave the same response when asked if it included labeling herself as a minority in the Association of American Law Schools directory.”

Either Warren lied, or she’s a fucking idiot who doesn’t know what race she is. Personally, I think the more charitable option is that she lied. Clearly, you think she’s a fucking idiot, which I think is a little harsh.
Or, she believed her oral family history that said, like so many others, that she had Native American blood in her background. It's a not-uncommon story (my wife heard the same when she was growing up). The advent of affordable DNA testing has required many people to re-evaluate what they were told about their background, and Warren seems to be one (as well as my wife and her family). It is entirely possible to say a thing that is not true, yet not lie; lying requires that you know the truth and that you say something contradictory. If she stated something she believed, then she was wrong, not lying.

I can't believe we are still rehashing this relative non-event.
  #41  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:36 AM
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I read Sanders's comment to be about voting Americans, not that a woman couldn't be qualified to be President. I have heard a number of women friends and relatives say essentially the same thing; that the American people won't vote a woman into the Presidency. I can't say they are wrong - I don't personally believe that, but after I told them all that I was certain Trump would not, in the end, be elected President, I have no credibility on this subject with my friends. :-/
  #42  
Old 01-14-2020, 07:52 AM
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Someone also lied about being Native American for half their life. Just thought I’d throw that in there. Y’know, for context...
Oh, well, if we're adding context we should mention that the opponent they both hope to run against lies dozens of times a day on virtually every topic from the trivial to the serious, and that many of the people who bring up Warren's misapprehension of her own family background seem perfectly fine supporting someone who has told thousands of lies in the last three years alone (not to mention the Trump University fraud case and the use of the Trump Foundation to divert charitable donations to Trump business and political rallies).

But yeah. Liz Warren once wrote a thing on a form decades ago. Let's focus on that. For context.
  #43  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:12 AM
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I thought lying about things in your past was acceptable for presidential candidates now. The evidence seems to support this.
  #44  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:28 AM
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This was almost certainly a calculated "leak" from the Warren campaign. Don't know yet if Warren herself pulled the trigger, or if an underling leaked it without getting her permission. Either way, this is a good test for Bernie, and a good example of why we have these long primaries -- to really test the eventual nominee.

I still like both Warren and Bernie. Even if this is a "dirty trick". Dirty tricks in politics are fine by me, as long as they work (and as long as they're for my favored candidate!).

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-14-2020 at 08:28 AM.
  #45  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:45 AM
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Or, she believed her oral family history that said, like so many others, that she had Native American blood in her background. It's a not-uncommon story (my wife heard the same when she was growing up). The advent of affordable DNA testing has required many people to re-evaluate what they were told about their background, and Warren seems to be one (as well as my wife and her family). It is entirely possible to say a thing that is not true, yet not lie; lying requires that you know the truth and that you say something contradictory. If she stated something she believed, then she was wrong, not lying.

I can't believe we are still rehashing this relative non-event.
This.

She believed something her mother told her. That's it. End of story.

The story requires nothing more than this simplest explanation.

Furthermore, the DNA test shows that what her mother told her was true, although possibly not to the degree that Elizabeth Warren expected.
  #46  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:47 AM
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This doesn't matter at all and doesn't change my opinion on either of them one iota. The reaction to it will probably affect how I see supporters of one or both of them, but not actually saying it.
  #47  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:58 AM
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Elizabeth Warren listed her race as ‘American Indian’ on a state bar of Texas census form. Elizabeth Warren is the whitest white woman ever. Ergo, she lied about her race. This is supported by the following facts:

1) According to her own DNA test, her closest NA relative was between 6 and 10 generations away. Let’s split the difference and say 8. That means you’d have to follow Warren’s family tree back to (literally!) her great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents to find an actual Native American.

2). In 2019, Warren formally apologised for ever calling herself Native American. Money quote:

” Warren, asked in a brief interview Tuesday if she’d intended the apology to include labeling herself as Native American when at the University of Pennsylvania and at Harvard University, replied “yes.” She gave the same response when asked if it included labeling herself as a minority in the Association of American Law Schools directory.”

Either Warren lied, or she’s a fucking idiot who doesn’t know what race she is. Personally, I think the more charitable option is that she lied. Clearly, you think she’s a fucking idiot, which I think is a little harsh.
Now Warren isn't my preferred candidate, but this post is garbo.
  #48  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
1) According to her own DNA test, her closest NA relative was between 6 and 10 generations away. Let’s split the difference and say 8. That means you’d have to follow Warren’s family tree back to (literally!) her great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents to find an actual Native American.
Do you realize that this thing that you posted shows that your claim is calumnious bullshit?

"Someone also lied about being Native American for half their life," is at odds with your statement that there are, in fact, Native Americans in her family tree.

So not only is your claim that Warren lied false, you are aware of and providing evidence of its falseness.

Why would you do that?
  #49  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:01 AM
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If Sanders said it, he wasn't being misogynistic in that he was saying that these little dears should stay home and make meatloaf. If he said it, he was commenting on the current state of politics of how voters might perceive a woman running for president.

Of course, he is wrong as Hillary was within tens of thousands of votes in a few key states of winning. But being wrong doesn't mean what the story is implying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom lamb View Post
Well, after 2016 I realized a woman candidate would have more hoops to jump through to get to the finish line in a national election, compared to a man. I don't like it but I think I see it.
I do agree Bernie should probably not have said that out loud (but then again, since I wasn't there to pick up his tone, for all I know he could have expressed his frustration over this fact)
And it just comes out wrong no matter the intent behind it.

(Hey, everybody knew a Black liberal Democrat could not get elected... until one was. But I wonder if any veteran pol ever told upstart Barack to his face, "dude, no way they're gonna vote for the Black guy". Remember how precandidate Biden got pummelled for referring to Obama as "clean and well spoken"?)
  #50  
Old 01-14-2020, 09:57 AM
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(Emphasis added.) ISWYDT, I think.
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