Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:06 PM
cjackson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 81

Survival of the Richest


The wealthy are plotting to leave us behind

So what kind of low life would volunteer to wear a shock collar for Mark Zuckerberg? Seriously, are the rich the evil ones, or is it those who are just following ze orders? I blame the order taking dogs. People that sell their bodies to protect the rich deserve the guillotine just like their masters.
  #2  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:56 PM
TruCelt's Avatar
TruCelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 11,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjackson View Post
. . . I blame the order taking dogs. People that sell their bodies to protect the rich deserve the guillotine just like their masters.
Yes, well, the trouble with today's GOP Senators is that they all know dang well they aren't suited for any other job.
  #3  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:02 PM
Mundane Super Hero is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruCelt View Post
Yes, well, the trouble with today's GOP Senators is that they all know dang well they aren't suited for any other job.


You mean... other than as fertilizer...?
  #4  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:28 AM
Senegoid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 15,574
Them as can, do.
Them as can't, teach.
And them as can't teach, teach P. E.

And them as can't even teach P. E., become senators.

(And, I suppose, them as can't even become senators, vote for them as can't even teach P. E.)
  #5  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:47 AM
Senegoid is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sunny California
Posts: 15,574
Okay, back to the OP's topic, sort of...

Sounds like he didn't tell those rich fat cats what they wanted to hear. I wonder if they paid him.
  #6  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:03 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
Okay, back to the OP's topic, sort of...

Sounds like he didn't tell those rich fat cats what they wanted to hear. I wonder if they paid him.
Hey, you don't get rich by paying a lot of Negative Nancies.
  #7  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:51 AM
JRDelirious is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 16,171
It's not just the rich. Think about religious end-timers, Preppers, etc. -- there is a considerable segment of the population that quite simply has concluded that the Great Global Catastrophe that ends our current civilizational cycle is inevitable, and the only thing to do is become either wealthy or armed or God-blessed enough to make it. So there's a large market for ideas about how to go about that. (FWIW in the long game I'll bet on the armed ones)

Last edited by JRDelirious; 01-18-2020 at 11:55 AM.
  #8  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:04 PM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
It seems like this is exactly what people here have been wanting, ultra rich that believe that climate change is the worst thing happening in the world right now. If you had Greta Thornberg's belief and say a billion dollars what would you do?

Personally, I'd be building a self sustaining compound where I and the people I care about will be able to weather the storm. It seems like these guys are doing the same thing and have reasonable concerns about how to make it work. A billion dollars isn't that much and they certainly can't do anything to prevent climate change with it. I can't see why the OP would want to kill people who might survive the coming change in the world unless it is to make sure no one survives.
  #9  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:20 PM
74westy's Avatar
74westy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 2,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
It seems like this is exactly what people here have been wanting, ultra rich that believe that climate change is the worst thing happening in the world right now. If you had Greta Thornberg's belief and say a billion dollars what would you do?

Personally, I'd be building a self sustaining compound where I and the people I care about will be able to weather the storm. It seems like these guys are doing the same thing and have reasonable concerns about how to make it work. A billion dollars isn't that much and they certainly can't do anything to prevent climate change with it. I can't see why the OP would want to kill people who might survive the coming change in the world unless it is to make sure no one survives.
If so, the OP doesn't want to kill that many more people than you do.
  #10  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:33 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 4,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjackson View Post
The wealthy are plotting to leave us behind

So what kind of low life would volunteer to wear a shock collar for Mark Zuckerberg? Seriously, are the rich the evil ones, or is it those who are just following ze orders? I blame the order taking dogs. People that sell their bodies to protect the rich deserve the guillotine just like their masters.
The kind of competent elite bodyguards you would actually hire if you could afford it (retired special forces, etc) I would expect to be professional, good at their jobs, use their brains and hopefully not do anything that would result in war crimes/guillotining. Note, those people don't work for peanuts and definitely not for shock collars or scraps and a pat on the head like a dog.
  #11  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:36 PM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 74westy View Post
If so, the OP doesn't want to kill that many more people than you do.
How does holing up some where safe kill people?

Last edited by Oredigger77; 01-18-2020 at 12:36 PM.
  #12  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:21 PM
74westy's Avatar
74westy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 2,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
How does holing up some where safe kill people?
What's the security force with the shock collars for?
  #13  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:27 PM
Crafter_Man's Avatar
Crafter_Man is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Ohio
Posts: 11,611
Sounds like they want to drop out, Atlas Shrugged style.
  #14  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:08 PM
74westy's Avatar
74westy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 2,063
nm

Last edited by 74westy; 01-18-2020 at 02:08 PM.
  #15  
Old 01-18-2020, 02:27 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 13,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjackson View Post
The wealthy are plotting to leave us behind

So what kind of low life would volunteer to wear a shock collar for Mark Zuckerberg? Seriously, are the rich the evil ones, or is it those who are just following ze orders? I blame the order taking dogs. People that sell their bodies to protect the rich deserve the guillotine just like their masters.
People that take orders from the rich are doing something truly shocking: they're earning a living. Guess what else? We're all taking orders from the rich. Gonna be an empty planet. Probably for the best.
  #16  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:56 PM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by 74westy View Post
What's the security force with the shock collars for?
I'm going to go with defending their stuff from assholes like the OP that want to murder them.
  #17  
Old 01-19-2020, 03:37 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 25,180
It's like the rich don't realize that wealth is a social construct - that the only reason they have money and property is that state says they have money and property, and in the absence of law and government, they'd be no better off than anyone else. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
  #18  
Old 01-19-2020, 04:55 AM
GreenWyvern's Avatar
GreenWyvern is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 2,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
It's like the rich don't realize that wealth is a social construct - that the only reason they have money and property is that state says they have money and property, and in the absence of law and government, they'd be no better off than anyone else. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
They realise it only too well. That's why they are putting so much thought into how to maintain some semblance of wealth and status in the absence of government.

But their whole thinking is childish. Do these guys understand nothing about life and people, apart from how to make money?
  #19  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:02 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 25,180
Apparently not. If they did, they'd realize the the only way to survive during times of crisis is to cooperate with other people, not compete with them.
  #20  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:53 AM
GreenWyvern's Avatar
GreenWyvern is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 2,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
Apparently not. If they did, they'd realize the the only way to survive during times of crisis is to cooperate with other people, not compete with them.
You are now changing your argument.

On your point that "the only reason they have money and property is that state says they have money and property", it is 100% clear that they do realise this. That was the whole reason for their meeting and discussion.

The question of how to survive well without government is a different one, and one where they have come to the wrong conclusion.
  #21  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:09 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 25,180
Actually, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
  #22  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:35 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWyvern View Post
They realise it only too well. That's why they are putting so much thought into how to maintain some semblance of wealth and status in the absence of government.

But their whole thinking is childish. Do these guys understand nothing about life and people, apart from how to make money?
Wealth can be relative. But if the current members of the super wealthy truly get the system they think they want, their folly is in assuming that they will remain members of that class. Capitalism can be predatory, and without restrictions, it devolves into capitalist system that becomes anti-competitive. Economic and political stability when there are mechanisms that maintain a competitive balance and fairness.

Over time, the survivors of this competition engender bitterness. As I've said before, all of us are hardwired with an inner "fairness" meter. People realize when they're getting screwed, and they don't care whether the letter of the law sanctions inequality.

Typically, though, the response from the elite isn't enlightenment. It isn't eureka; it's more often than not a doubling and tripling down on their insistence that they remain at the top of the hierarchy.

Without an intervention, this is where human civilization is headed in the 21st Century, and it's not just an American problem. The pace of dislocation and the resulting tumult will likely occur with shocking rapidity as climate change worsens and creates existential scarcity within political boundaries. And with it, the likelihood of massive and destructive war also increases.
  #23  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:37 AM
74westy's Avatar
74westy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Posts: 2,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
I'm going to go with defending their stuff from assholes like the OP that want to murder them.
I'll let the OP deal with your slander.

No, the security forces will mostly be dealing with starving women and children until they figure out how to remove the shock collars and deal with their employers.

Last edited by 74westy; 01-19-2020 at 11:38 AM.
  #24  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:04 PM
JRDelirious is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 16,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPRK View Post
The kind of competent elite bodyguards you would actually hire if you could afford it (retired special forces, etc) I would expect to be professional, good at their jobs, use their brains and hopefully not do anything that would result in war crimes/guillotining. Note, those people don't work for peanuts and definitely not for shock collars or scraps and a pat on the head like a dog.
I suppose their thinking is that they'll get a few elite operators to be their personal praetorians in exchange for a share of civilized life when the World falls apart, becoming the high ranking Barons who train and command the shock-collared mooks who Will Fight For Food.

Of course that counts on that the competent elite operators never come to the conclusion that the overlords intend to dispose of them once there are enough numbers of trained mookdogs and competing peers. If that happens, shortly the corporate/investment billionaires of the Old Regime somehow stop being overlords, and many of them just stop being.
  #25  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:58 AM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 25,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
Of course that counts on that the competent elite operators never come to the conclusion that the overlords intend to dispose of them once there are enough numbers of trained mookdogs and competing peers. If that happens, shortly the corporate/investment billionaires of the Old Regime somehow stop being overlords, and many of them just stop being.
They won't have to reach that conclusion. As soon as everything collapses, the overlords will have nothing left to offer the elite operators, and thus won't be needed any more. "Hey, boss - this is my house now. Hit the road."

Last edited by Alessan; 01-20-2020 at 06:59 AM.
  #26  
Old 01-20-2020, 10:42 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,782
The article OP links to is interesting, and should be eye-opening ... for those of us whose jaded cynicism wasn't already sickened by these realities.

Yet someone read the article (perhaps) but with a very different perspective:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
It seems like this is exactly what people here have been wanting, ultra rich that believe that climate change is the worst thing happening in the world right now. If you had Greta Thornberg's belief and say a billion dollars what would you do?...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
I'm going to go with defending their stuff from assholes like the OP that want to murder them.
Dear Mr. Oredigger77: I have neither questions nor answers for you. To the contrary I've quoted yours as an example of the sort of "thinking" where attempts at human communication between you and rational thinkers are doomed. You may have had a high IQ as a toddler, but thereafter raced to the bottom and by now have devolved into stupidity. There's no way you will ever find a way to learn or have sense pounded into your head. You are a living symbol of the perverse and deliberate American imbecility that brought us Donald J. Trump. Congratulations, I guess.
  #27  
Old 01-20-2020, 11:47 AM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
I'm comfortable with that. Its a shame that your side of the Dem party is going to reelect an idiot like Trump who I haven't voted for an never will. I guess those who are incapable of learning get to feel smug.
  #28  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:17 PM
Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
Its a shame that your side of the Dem party is going to reelect an idiot like Trump
Blaming Democrats, who didn't nominate or vote for Trump, for being the ones who "elected" him or are "going to reelect" him is sheer craven responsibility-ducking. The people who actually supported the idiot Trump are the ones responsible for his Presidency.

Last edited by Kimstu; 01-20-2020 at 12:18 PM.
  #29  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:32 PM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
It seems like this is exactly what people here have been wanting, ultra rich that believe that climate change is the worst thing happening in the world right now. If you had Greta Thornberg's belief and say a billion dollars what would you do?
Counter the corrupting nature of fossil fuel money that greatly helps elect or re-elect ignoramuses into high office.
  #30  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:40 PM
Kearsen1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 440
Garner enough money to become wealthy, you can turn that wealth into power. (Regardless what the government does or does not protect)

Guess who wins in a world where the 'wealthy' have armed guards and you have a stick.
  #31  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:55 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 4,494
It's all very well to have power and armed guards, until quite suddenly you don't. See: any number of erstwhile autocrats and emperors.
  #32  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:09 PM
Alessan's Avatar
Alessan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 25,180
Note also that very few autocrats and emperors seized power by being rich - they seized power by having people loyal to them. Then they got rich.

You can't buy loyalty with money. People who'll fight for cash won't hesitate to "renegotiate" the terms of their employment at gunpoint if the opportunity arises.
  #33  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:34 PM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Blaming Democrats, who didn't nominate or vote for Trump, for being the ones who "elected" him or are "going to reelect" him is sheer craven responsibility-ducking. The people who actually supported the idiot Trump are the ones responsible for his Presidency.
And yet many of the people who voted for Trump have talked about being ignored or looked down on by the coastal elites as a reason for their votes. Even the out of context despicable's comment by Clinton is still used to motivate Trump's base. Sure you could blame the people who voted for trump as the sole focus of evil in the world or we could try and solve the problem by not calling them the scum of the earth at every opportunity

I see people on this board wanting the total destruction of the Republican party and hating the people who voted for trump and I'm get why Trump's support hasn't wavered. If his support doesn't waver then the Dems have to overcome it with enthusiasm. Telling people that if they don't want to take the rich's money they are stupid and evil certainly doesn't help the enthusiasm of people in the middle and that is the fastest way to get Trump reelected. Of course the other option would be not hating the evil bastards that voted for Trump last time and working with them to get them to leave trump but I haven't seen anything that could work in that direction.
  #34  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:28 PM
Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
And yet many of the people who voted for Trump have talked about being ignored or looked down on by the coastal elites as a reason for their votes.
That is likewise sheer craven responsibility-ducking. If you're going to make your vote for POTUS all about your personal hurt feelings that "coastal elites" are allegedly "ignoring" or "looking down on" you, instead of about your informed mature opinion about which of the available candidates would be the best at governing, that act of petulant irresponsibility is entirely on you.

I myself often feel unfairly looked down on or maligned by lots of other American voters, but I don't take that as an excuse to make deliberately stupid choices just to piss those other voters off.
  #35  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:55 PM
Aspidistra is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
Garner enough money to become wealthy, you can turn that wealth into power. (Regardless what the government does or does not protect)

Guess who wins in a world where the 'wealthy' have armed guards and you have a stick.
The armed guards, generally.
  #36  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:31 PM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
I'm comfortable with that. Its a shame that your side of the Dem party is going to reelect an idiot like Trump who I haven't voted for an never will. I guess those who are incapable of learning get to feel smug.
I wonder what you imagine "my side of the Dem party" to be. I scored with Yang, Buttigieg , Bloomberg, Biden and Klobuchar on the recent alignment quiz. In your diction is "the other side of the Dem party" those of us who, in contrast to you, have a 3-digit IQ?

Who did you vote for in 2016? Nitwit Johnson? Or were you too hung-over to get out of bed on Election Day after a whiskey-drinking orgy with your fellow Tucker Carlson junkies (or whoever you get your decrepit thinking from)?
  #37  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:33 PM
Kearsen1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
The armed guards, generally.
Which is exactly why you not only have to be powerful, you have to be popular as well
  #38  
Old 01-20-2020, 04:04 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 29,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
I'm going to go with defending their stuff from assholes like the OP that want to murder them.
The OP most certainly did NOT express a desire to murder anyone. Any other posts you'd like to distort? Any other made-up falsehoods to throw into the thread?
  #39  
Old 01-20-2020, 04:08 PM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 29,704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
Garner enough money to become wealthy, you can turn that wealth into power. (Regardless what the government does or does not protect)

Guess who wins in a world where the 'wealthy' have armed guards and you have a stick.
If things get bad enough wealth will be measured in canned goods and bottled water, not who has a large number in a ledger somewhere or even bars of a shiny yellow metal.

In the end, the "elite guards" will be the ones in charge because they'll be the ones to take the canned goods from everyone else. An inconvenient former billionaire or two would be a minor obstacle.
  #40  
Old 01-20-2020, 04:11 PM
Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 27,680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
Garner enough money to become wealthy, you can turn that wealth into power. (Regardless what the government does or does not protect)

Guess who wins in a world where the 'wealthy' have armed guards and you have a stick.
Itís quite apparent you didnít read the article.
  #41  
Old 01-20-2020, 04:11 PM
Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North of the River
Posts: 3,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
In the end, the "elite guards" will be the ones in charge because they'll be the ones to take the canned goods from everyone else. An inconvenient former billionaire or two would be a minor obstacle.
Lucifer's Hammer has a scene where the rich guy makes it to his mountain home, and is shocked when his caretaker won't let him in. The caretaker didn't shoot him, so the rich guy had that going for him at any rate.
  #42  
Old 01-20-2020, 05:57 PM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
The OP most certainly did NOT express a desire to murder anyone.
Umm . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjackson View Post
People that sell their bodies to protect the rich deserve the guillotine just like their masters.
I guess you're arguing that if you chop off some one's head after a revolution its a state action and therefor not murder? I'll just disagree with that.
  #43  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:02 PM
Oredigger77 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
I wonder what you imagine "my side of the Dem party" to be. I scored with Yang, Buttigieg , Bloomberg, Biden and Klobuchar on the recent alignment quiz. In your diction is "the other side of the Dem party" those of us who, in contrast to you, have a 3-digit IQ?

Who did you vote for in 2016? Nitwit Johnson? Or were you too hung-over to get out of bed on Election Day after a whiskey-drinking orgy with your fellow Tucker Carlson junkies (or whoever you get your decrepit thinking from)?
It gets hard to tell since you bounce around in your posting like a schizophrenic monkey but lately it seems you want to line up next to Der and Asahi. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that we score on the same side of the dem party.
  #44  
Old 01-21-2020, 04:11 PM
Shodan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 40,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus
In your diction is "the other side of the Dem party" those of us who, in contrast to you, have a 3-digit IQ?
Helpful hint: the numbers to the right of the decimal point don't count.

Regards,
Shodan
  #45  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:59 PM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
It's like the rich don't realize that wealth is a social construct - that the only reason they have money and property is that state says they have money and property, and in the absence of law and government, they'd be no better off than anyone else.
The wealthy can still be wealthy in an apocalyptic dystopia, it's just a different kind of wealth. In that world, you're right that things like dollars and euros are useless, but what would be valuable is things like canned food, crop seeds, solar panels, firearms + ammo, medical supplies, all sorts of useful gear, and the wealthy can stockpile that stuff in abundance ahead of time, and in larger quantity than anyone else. A millionaire who amassed a huge basement full of that stuff would be richer than Bill Gates in such a dystopia.

Last edited by Velocity; 01-21-2020 at 06:04 PM.
  #46  
Old 01-21-2020, 06:20 PM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 19,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
If things get bad enough wealth will be measured in canned goods and bottled water, not who has a large number in a ledger somewhere or even bars of a shiny yellow metal.

In the end, the "elite guards" will be the ones in charge because they'll be the ones to take the canned goods from everyone else. An inconvenient former billionaire or two would be a minor obstacle.
Hence the seminal problem of those wealthy fuckmooks in the article : "how do I keep my violent goons loyal ? Bomb collars, maybe ?"
  #47  
Old 01-21-2020, 06:25 PM
Wesley Clark is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 23,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
The wealthy can still be wealthy in an apocalyptic dystopia, it's just a different kind of wealth. In that world, you're right that things like dollars and euros are useless, but what would be valuable is things like canned food, crop seeds, solar panels, firearms + ammo, medical supplies, all sorts of useful gear, and the wealthy can stockpile that stuff in abundance ahead of time, and in larger quantity than anyone else. A millionaire who amassed a huge basement full of that stuff would be richer than Bill Gates in such a dystopia.
This is all true (I'd add a variety of camping gear, communications gear, liquid fuels, etc to the list). Money will be useless and likely so will precious metals (at least at first).

But the argument made in the article is that the leaders don't know how to keep control of the paramilitary forces they depend on for security. Right now the state has a monopoly on violence. Having a monopoly on violence is much harder when you have a bunch of people with security services each consisting of 10-20 people, and each one of them knows all they have to do is kill the billionaire and his family to collect all the goods for themselves.

Generally speaking the smaller the state is, the easier it to overthrow. In a post apocalypse scenario states will just be tiny tribes and the bodyguards will just kill the leaders and take their stuff.

I personally doubt society collapses though. Society is pretty damn resilient. From 1900 until about 1953 Russian society withstood a civil war, WW1, a second civil war, the spanish flu, the stalinist purges, mass famines, WW2 and then a new set of purges. Society survived fine.

During the black plague when half of Europe died, society survived. To truly kill a society (like what happened in a lot of native American societies) you have to kill about 90% of the citizens. Anything short of that, and society seems to survive.

The idea that society will collapse because coastal cities will be flooded doesn't sound reasonable to me.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion
  #48  
Old 01-21-2020, 07:57 PM
Jackmannii's Avatar
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 32,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
It's not just the rich. Think about religious end-timers, Preppers, etc. -- there is a considerable segment of the population that quite simply has concluded that the Great Global Catastrophe that ends our current civilizational cycle is inevitable, and the only thing to do is become either wealthy or armed or God-blessed enough to make it.
Right.

There are plenty of End Times preppers who are not wealthy. It doesn't surprise me that some rich people are similarly deluded that they'll be able to survive the coming Apocalypse and live decently afterwards.

I'm reminded of the top government and military officials in the War Room in "Dr. Strangelove", brainstorming ways to avoid the consequences of worldwide nuclear war in underground bunkers.
  #49  
Old 01-21-2020, 08:41 PM
Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 23,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Helpful hint: the numbers to the right of the decimal point don't count.
Helpfuller hint: the IQ scoring system is by definition integer-valued, so there aren't any "numbers to the right of the decimal point" in an IQ score.
  #50  
Old 01-22-2020, 02:27 AM
Gullibility is Underated is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
The OP most certainly did NOT express a desire to murder anyone. Any other posts you'd like to distort? Any other made-up falsehoods to throw into the thread?
Just as a matter of interest, what are guillotines used for in your neck of the woods?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017