Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:21 AM
Paul in Qatar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 13,328

What is the Plural of "Arkansas?"


On Wikipedia I am reading about the four Arkansas-class monitors.

How the heck do we make the plural possessive of "Arkansas?"

"The Akransas' engines were....." Clearly this is the singular possessive.

"The Akransases engines were....." Obviously and attempt at the plural.

"The Akransases' engines were....." Just seems wrong too.

How about Arkansai?
__________________
800-237-5055
Shrine Hospitals for Children (North America)
Never any fee
Do you know a child in need?
  #2  
Old 02-14-2020, 10:24 AM
Calavera's Avatar
Calavera is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
On Wikipedia I am reading about the four Arkansas-class monitors.

How the heck do we make the plural possessive of "Arkansas?"

"The Akransas' engines were....." Clearly this is the singular possessive.

"The Akransases engines were....." Obviously and attempt at the plural.

"The Akransases' engines were....." Just seems wrong too.

How about Arkansai?
The Arkansases'.... is the only one that seems right to me.
  #3  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:08 AM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,417
As a former brief resident of Kansas, I think the plural of Kansas would be “Kansases”. I may have even heard that term before.

“Arkansas” of course is pronounced differently (the last “s” is silent) so I’m tempted to pronounce it like “Arkansaws”. But I’m not sure how that would be written. Maybe it’s spelled “Arkansases” but pronounced “Arkansaws”?
  #4  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:11 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 37,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
On Wikipedia I am reading about the four Arkansas-class monitors.

How the heck do we make the plural possessive of "Arkansas?"

"The Akransas' engines were....." Clearly this is the singular possessive.

"The Akransases engines were....." Obviously and attempt at the plural.

"The Akransases' engines were....." Just seems wrong too.
It might seem wrong to you, but it's correct.

Well, except that you've misspelled "Arkansas"
__________________
*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.
  #5  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:15 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boonies??
Posts: 22,379
Arky's


(I'm a resident)
()
  #6  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:15 AM
Jasmine's Avatar
Jasmine is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,613
I think it's like the word, "deer". You have one deer and you have five deer.
__________________
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge."
--Daniel J Boorstin
  #7  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:54 AM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 44,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calavera View Post
The Arkansases'.... is the only one that seems right to me.
That's correct. Style guides say to add only an apostrophe to plural proper names ending in 's'.
  #8  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:58 AM
Moriarty's Avatar
Moriarty is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 3,319
I'd like to suggest Arkansauce.
  #9  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:01 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 44,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine View Post
I think it's like the word, "deer". You have one deer and you have five deer.
Irrelevant to the question in the OP. First, you're talking about a plural rather than a plural possessive. "Deer" is unusual in having the plural the same as the singular. The plural just takes apostrophe "s' like most other plural nouns: "the deer's tracks" can refer to the tracks of a single deer or a herd of deer.
  #10  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:31 PM
simster is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 11,528
Why in the hell would we want more than one?
  #11  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:35 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 4,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine View Post
I think it's like the word, "deer". You have one deer and you have five deer.
I think it can be argued that "Arkansas" is already plural, therefore trying to make it more plural by forming "Arkansases" is pushing it, especially with the silent 's'. (Then again we have: one people, two peoples. So maybe the plural should be spelled the same (Arkansas) but with the s voiced. One Arkansaw, two Arkansaws.)

The possessive of the singular should then clearly(?) be Arkansas's; in the plural I would probably write it the same (cf Jones's, Moses's), but you should refer to your official style guide for that case.
  #12  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:37 PM
Zeldar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 24,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by simster View Post
Why in the hell would we want more than one?
I'm also curious about potential need(s) for such a construction.
  #13  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:57 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Arky's


(I'm a resident)
()
You think that lets you off the hook?

Arkys is the plural of alligators.
__________________
You callous bastard! More of my illusions have just been shattered!!-G0sp3l
  #14  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:58 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 37,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeldar View Post
I'm also curious about potential need(s) for such a construction.
The OP explains it. "Four Arkansas-class monitors" can be referred to as "four Arkansases."
__________________
*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.
  #15  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:01 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 30,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
On Wikipedia I am reading about the four Arkansas-class monitors.

How the heck do we make the plural possessive of "Arkansas?"
Given that only one of the four ships was named Arkansas, it seems wrong to refer to collectively by that name. Instead you would call them the Arkansas-class monitors, and then perhaps just the monitors.
  #16  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:02 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,918
My first thought is "Arkansans".
"The Arkansans were armed with two twelve inch guns in a turret."
__________________
You callous bastard! More of my illusions have just been shattered!!-G0sp3l
  #17  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:04 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Arky's


(I'm a resident)
()
You think that lets you off the hook?

Arkies is the plural of alligators.
__________________
You callous bastard! More of my illusions have just been shattered!!-G0sp3l
  #18  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:06 PM
md2000 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15,492
Arkskansas? (Like Mothers-in-law)
Arkansae?
Arkanses?
  #19  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:11 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 44,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPRK View Post
I think it can be argued that "Arkansas" is already plural,
No it isn't, by any stretch of the imagination. Although the name of the state is derived from a French plural, it is treated as a singular noun in English. Would you say "Arkansas is a US state" or "Arkansas are a US state"? Similarly for the name of a kind of ship derived from the state.

Quote:
in the plural I would probably write it the same (cf Jones's, Moses's), but you should refer to your official style guide for that case.
The plural of Jones is Joneses, as in "keeping up with the Joneses." The plural possessive would normally be Joneses'.

I'm going to ask for a style guide citation for alternatives to that.
  #20  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:51 PM
bump is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 19,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
The OP explains it. "Four Arkansas-class monitors" can be referred to as "four Arkansases."
Sure, but he's probably better off rewriting/writing the sentences to not even have to do that- any way you try and pluralize "Arkansas" is liable to look awkward.

So rather than "The Akransas' engines were..." rewrite it like:

"The engines of the Arkansas class were...."

Or something similar- avoid having to pluralize it by writing the sentence differently.
  #21  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:54 PM
kaylasdad99 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 32,925
Easy question, if you approach it correctly.

Find the plural of Kansas. Then precede that with "Ar."
  #22  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:07 PM
yabob is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 7,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
Sure, but he's probably better off rewriting/writing the sentences to not even have to do that- any way you try and pluralize "Arkansas" is liable to look awkward.

So rather than "The Akransas' engines were..." rewrite it like:

"The engines of the Arkansas class were...."

Or something similar- avoid having to pluralize it by writing the sentence differently.
Yeah, my thought, too. I'd probably shorten it a little more: "The Arkansas class engines were ...". That's somewhat improper in that it's not clear that you mean the engines of the Arkansas class ships rather than the engines themselves having a class, but it's not likely to be misunderstood in context of an article discussing Arkansas class monitors. "The Arkansas class had **** engines" works, too.
__________________
... and with these words
we parted each feeling
superior to the other and is not that
feeling after all one of the great
desiderata of social intercourse
archy

Last edited by yabob; 02-14-2020 at 02:08 PM.
  #23  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:09 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 4,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
The plural of Jones is Joneses, as in "keeping up with the Joneses." The plural possessive would normally be Joneses'.

I'm going to ask for a style guide citation for alternatives to that.
Sorry, I wrote quite carelessly. The rule is (possibly with some exceptions according to the style guide) that the singular possessive is formed using 's : Jones's friend, Camus's writings, Arkansas's history. I agree that in the plural you should write the Joneses' friend (stipulating that Joneses is the correct plural) because it ends in -s. So Arkansas' (according to my first suggestion) and Arkansases' would be consistent with that. The question is, what to do with a plural word ending in silent s. (Enfants terribles? I need to think of some better examples.) You are probably right that it is still just an apostrophe, but now I need to hunt down multiple style guides to be sure..

Last edited by DPRK; 02-14-2020 at 02:14 PM.
  #24  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:10 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boonies??
Posts: 22,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
You think that lets you off the hook?

Arkies is the plural of alligators.
Whoo Pig!!
  #25  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:21 PM
psychonaut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeldar View Post
I'm also curious about potential need(s) for such a construction.
Quite apart from the ship example of the OP, the word "Arkansas" can also refer to a type of novaculite, or a whetstone made from it, so in a conversation about geology, mineralogy, or blade sharpening, it might make sense to refer to different specimens or varieties in the plural.
  #26  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:29 PM
Atamasama's Avatar
Atamasama is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
Easy question, if you approach it correctly.

Find the plural of Kansas. Then precede that with "Ar."
Technically Kansas is plural; it’s the plural of the Kansa people who occupied part of what is now Kansas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaw_people
Fun fact, one of the Kansas was Herbert Hoover’s Vice President, Charles Curtis. (He was also from Kansas.)

Of course we’re talking about the state so that’s a bit of a tangent. The state, by the way, was named for the Kansas River, which was named for the Kansa people (also called the Kaw Nation).
  #27  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:35 PM
psychonaut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
Technically Kansas is plural; it’s the plural of the Kansa people who occupied part of what is now Kansas.
It's "technically" plural in the same way that "panini" is "technically" plural—which is to say, in a way that's completely irrelevant for this thread's English-language question.
  #28  
Old 02-14-2020, 05:03 PM
The Stafford Cripps is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,475
This is the one situation where English has, like Slovene, two forms of nominative plural. It goes: one Arkansas, two Arakain, three (or more,) Arrkanzid.

However the genetive plural is the same for any number more than one of Arrkanzid; it's 'Arkainy'.
  #29  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:12 PM
DPRK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 4,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPRK View Post
Sorry, I wrote quite carelessly. The rule is (possibly with some exceptions according to the style guide) that the singular possessive is formed using 's : Jones's friend, Camus's writings, Arkansas's history. I agree that in the plural you should write the Joneses' friend (stipulating that Joneses is the correct plural) because it ends in -s. So Arkansas' (according to my first suggestion) and Arkansases' would be consistent with that. The question is, what to do with a plural word ending in silent s. (Enfants terribles? I need to think of some better examples.) You are probably right that it is still just an apostrophe, but now I need to hunt down multiple style guides to be sure..
OK, for instance A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language distinguishes nouns with a regular plural, in which case the genitive is always written with a final apostrophe: "boys'", from irregular plurals whose genitive is formed with 's. It doesn't seem to involve the pronunciation of the ending except in the singular case, where Jones' vs Jones's is discussed.

This begs the question, is Arkansas supposed to be a regular, or an irregular plural? (Or is there an omission from their chart? "Analyses" is mentioned as an example of an irregular plural, but what does it become in the genitive? They don't say, at least not clearly. Anyone else want to double-check the text?) A regular plural "Arkansases" (cf. Joneses) seems to be ruled out because the noun does not end in a sibilant, but, of course, it might be an irregular plural! But it seems the plural of a singular "Arkansas" should be "Arkansas" (with a /z/) on the model of "corps" and "chassis", which would make the genitive plural a regular Arkansas' , corps' as far as I interpret the rules in that chapter (and it would be "enfants terribles's" !?! and also would have been "Arkansas's" in the plural too if Arkansas-with-a-silent-s *were* plural) That's the one book, anyway.

Kansas is pronounced with an /s/, so its plural is Kansases and genitive plural is Kansases'.

Last edited by DPRK; 02-14-2020 at 06:13 PM.
  #30  
Old 02-14-2020, 06:45 PM
Colibri's Avatar
Colibri is online now
SD Curator of Critters
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Panama
Posts: 44,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
Technically Kansas is plural; it’s the plural of the Kansa people who occupied part of what is now Kansas.
As I said above about Arkansas, Kansas may be plural in derivation but it is treated as a singular noun in English. Kansas is a US state, not Kansas are a US state.
  #31  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:08 PM
Paul in Qatar is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 13,328
Thank you all. Sorry for my typo. I seem to be making more and more of them in the last few years.
__________________
800-237-5055
Shrine Hospitals for Children (North America)
Never any fee
Do you know a child in need?
  #32  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:16 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Whoo Pig!!
This from the woman who murdered piglet!
  #33  
Old 02-15-2020, 02:18 AM
TokyoBayer's Avatar
TokyoBayer is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 10,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Given that only one of the four ships was named Arkansas, it seems wrong to refer to collectively by that name. Instead you would call them the Arkansas-class monitors, and then perhaps just the monitors.
This. The wiki article on them seems badly written as this is the standard way of referring to a particular class of ships.
  #34  
Old 02-15-2020, 03:08 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boonies??
Posts: 22,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
This from the woman who murdered piglet!
*Carni!!-don't make me come to the big Rock to find you.

*nickname



any way it was like 22 piglets..none were pink or wore clothes
  #35  
Old 02-15-2020, 03:12 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boonies??
Posts: 22,379
BTW..the lil'wrekker says in her *infinite wisdom: More than one Arkansas is an Arkans-ass


(*She's a young whippersnapper with almost 3 years at University under her belt)
  #36  
Old 02-15-2020, 05:25 AM
jerez is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
...the Kansas River, which was named for the Kansa people (also called the Kaw Nation).
I thought that was the Crow people (haw).

Last edited by jerez; 02-15-2020 at 05:26 AM.
  #37  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:28 AM
Meurglys is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 2,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerez View Post
I thought that was the Crow people (haw).
That's a rookie mistake to make!

  #38  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:47 AM
pulykamell is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SW Side, Chicago
Posts: 49,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atamasama View Post
As a former brief resident of Kansas, I think the plural of Kansas would be “Kansases”. I may have even heard that term before.

“Arkansas” of course is pronounced differently (the last “s” is silent) so I’m tempted to pronounce it like “Arkansaws”. But I’m not sure how that would be written. Maybe it’s spelled “Arkansases” but pronounced “Arkansaws”?
That is how I would pronounce it and spell it. If you google "two Arkansases" you can find a few uses of the Arkansas plural on the web and in print that way. ("Two Arkansases" as in the context of, say, a rural and urban Arkansas divide. Come to think of it, my state, Illinois, would have a rather awkward plural, as well: Illinoises. "A Tale of Two Illinoises." I would pronounce that as "Ill-in-oyz" not "Ill-in-oyz-es.")

That said, there is precedent in the English language to pluralize words with a terminal silent-S by leaving the word as-is. Take the plurals of "chassis," "rendezvous," and "patois," for instance. All, so far as I can find, have identical singular and plural spellings (though one dictionary notes "rendezvouses" as a "rare" plural, listing "rendezvous" as the preferred plural). Even "faux pas" is made "faux pas" in the plural. (In all these cases, though, the pronunciation does change, with the "s" being sounded in the plural.) I actually cannot find a case in which a word with a silent-s at the end is made plural by adding "es." That said, there's not a wealth of examples in English.

So there is some merit to the idea of pluralizing "Arkansas" by leaving it alone. My instinct would be just to append the standard plural marker ("es" in this case) absent guidance from a dictionary declaring "Arkansas" to be the plural, but if we were to extrapolate a rule based on other terminal silent-s words, leaving it alone would be defensible.

Last edited by pulykamell; 02-15-2020 at 08:50 AM.
  #39  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:24 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 37,165
Since the spelling of words like "Illinois" and "Arkansas" comes from French orthography, maybe, like in French, the final silent "s" should sometimes be allowed to be un-silent.

So, I propose that in the plurals "Arkansases" and "Illinoises" that the Ses are all pronounced. I've been sitting here saying them to myself and getting used to it.
__________________
*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.
  #40  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:48 AM
KneadToKnow is offline
Voodoo Adult (Slight Return)
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 27,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Instead you would call them the Arkansas-class monitors, and then perhaps just the monitors.
This is the correct answer to this and almost all "this structure seems incredibly awkward to express clearly and grammatically" questions. Re-write it so that it is can be clear and grammatical.

This is also why brand names usually do not officially have a plural. You're not supposed to say "Rolls-Royces," you're supposed to say "Rolls-Royce automobiles." Cite.
  #41  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:58 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 37,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneadToKnow View Post
This is the correct answer to this and almost all "this structure seems incredibly awkward to express clearly and grammatically" questions. Re-write it so that it is can be clear and grammatical.
But that's just avoiding the question. Just because a structure is inelegant in a certain situation doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And if it exists, then someone might want to use it, regardless of whether it's considered sub-optimal. And if it exists, then there must be at least one answer to the question

Quote:
This is also why brand names usually do not officially have a plural. You're not supposed to say "Rolls-Royces," you're supposed to say "Rolls-Royce automobiles." Cite.
The guidelines perpetuated by trademark owners are irrelevant to questions of English usage in all but limited trademark-relevant circumstances. What a trademark owner "officially" desires is of no interest or relevance to discussions of English usage. I say that as someone with 20-plus years of experience with intellectual property law.

So go ahead and say "Rolls-Royces" and "Legos" and "Mont Blancs" and "Kleenexes" and "Canons" and "Oreos" and "Tic Tacs" and "Adidases" if that what comes naturally to you.

And, please, capitalize them like normal words. Ignore logotype nonsense like "adidas" and "macy*s" and "Yahoo!" and "eBay." It's Adidas, Macy's, Yahoo, and EBay for regular people. Language doesn't belong to trademark owners.
__________________
*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.
  #42  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:08 AM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 30,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
But that's just avoiding the question. Just because a structure is inelegant in a certain situation doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And if it exists, then someone might want to use it, regardless of whether it's considered sub-optimal. And if it exists, then there must be at least one answer to the question
Yes, trying to make a plural out of Arkansas is inelegant and hard to say, but it's also incorrect, given that only one of the ships is called Arkansas.
  #43  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:19 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 37,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Yes, trying to make a plural out of Arkansas is inelegant and hard to say, but it's also incorrect, given that only one of the ships is called Arkansas.
Something being factually incorrect is irrelevant to grammar and usage. Grammar is syntactical, regardless of whether the syntax produces a meaningful or truthful result.

"The green spaces eat hot refrigeration." It's a grammatically correct statement.

It might be a counter-factual statement, or it might become factually correct in the future.

If one person starts calling Arkansas-class monitors "Arkansases," and that is picked up by other people, then eventually the incorrectness may become correct. That's language.
__________________
*I'm experimenting with E, em, and es and emself as pronouns that do not indicate any specific gender nor exclude any specific gender.
  #44  
Old 02-15-2020, 11:29 AM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 30,184
That is true, especially given that we're talking about monitors, which is a type of warship named after a particular ship called the USS Monitor. So if that sort of thing ever happens to "Arkansas-class monitors", we'll have to adapt. I still argue, though, that the inelegance of a plural form of Arkansas is a big reason why we'll never do that. (There's also the fact that there was only ever four ships of the type.)
  #45  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:25 PM
RioRico is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 2,490
One Arkansas.
More Arkansaws.

That raises (not begs) the question, Why have more than one Arkansas? Why overload? Well, suppose there's an east-west secessionist movement, with E.AR vs W.AR. Then we'd have two Arkansaws, for sure. But if they divorce, are they still siblings?

Arkansaw is official. "...the Arkansaw spelling is the one used on the Act that created the territory. But in the end, the original Arkansas spelling is the one that prevailed, but it did so with an Anglicized version of the French pronunciation." (cite)

One Arkansas.
More Arkansaws.
Many Arkanzoids (Arkansas-like entities).
  #46  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:30 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Boonies??
Posts: 22,379
I know a few Arkanzoids.
  #47  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:55 PM
Melbourne is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
Given that only one of the four ships was named Arkansas, it seems wrong to refer to collectively by that name. Instead you would call them the Arkansas-class monitors, and then perhaps just the monitors.
What? I thought this was about the Akron class, and weren't there only two of those?
  #48  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:39 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 30,184
Didn't the first sentence of the OP make it clear what we were talking about?
  #49  
Old 02-16-2020, 04:00 AM
Melbourne is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,026
I think you mean "made clear in the second post".
  #50  
Old 02-16-2020, 11:38 AM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 30,184
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017