# .001%? (One servicemember's response to OWS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760 "2011-11-03T17:39:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/41 "2011-11-03T20:21:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Nah, that’s the “I’m right because I’ve got a club and you don’t” fallacy. As I recall, that one actually is a real fallacy with a Latin name … oh yes, here it is, [argumentum ad baculum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/42 "2011-11-03T20:36:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I hereby dub it _Argumentum ad legionem_. Spread it around, people. > > Nah, that’s the “I’m right because I’ve got a club and you don’t” fallacy. No, that’s [Argumentum ad baculum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum), literally “appeal to the stick”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/43 "2011-11-03T20:51:30Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Argumentum Ad Arma. Nah, that would be [this](http://www.gamesradar.com/itv-documentary-makers-mistake-game-footage-real-life-use-arma-ii-footage-show-ira-attack/?comment_ordering=oldest_first). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/44 "2011-11-03T21:03:01Z")
To answer the question, I don’t know that “I served the military and I believe X” was ever all that meaningful in terms of economic or social policy, was it? Has there ever been a time where the general public, or even a good majority of people, looked to the military for verification on issues other than maybe foreign policy? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/45 "2011-11-03T21:19:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > No, that’s [Argumentum ad baculum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum), literally “appeal to the stick”. I know :). But I realize now I made a mistake. I thought \*\*Kinthalis \*\*meant “Argument to weapons”, which would have been equivalent to said “argument to clubs”. As opposed to “Argument to Army”, which I now realize he probably meant. I goofed thus because while arma is often used in Latin in a …damn, what’s the name of that figure of speech, part for the whole…metonymy, that’s the one. Often used in a metonymical fashion, it really does mean weapons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/46 "2011-11-03T22:56:28Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I’m not sure where the connection to OWS is but a serviceman suggesting that citizens should shut up unless they have served in the military (which is how I read this) is a disgrace to the uniform he is so carefully displaying. I think he needs a new line of work. Or he should read _Starship Troopers_ and get it out of his system. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/47 "2011-11-03T23:21:07Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I had read half this thread before I finally realized what “OWS” stands for. Maybe I’m out of touch, but this “occupy” stuff seems like it’s just an obscure Internet thing. Yeah, it’s so obscure it’s been a top news story for months now. I know when there were 20,000 of them marching to close down the port in Oakland last night I thought, “That sure is an arcane protest going on outside.” ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/48 "2011-11-03T23:29:05Z")
Too late to edit: I’m fully prepared for the possibility I was whooshed with that comment. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/49 "2011-11-04T13:16:00Z")
No, it wasn’t a whoosh. I first heard of it a couple of weeks ago here on the SDMB. I have seen it referred to elsewhere since then, but not to such an extent that I’d see “OWS” and know what it was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/50 "2011-11-04T13:35:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Or he should read _Starship Troopers_ and get it out of his system. Good point. He can hope for a better future, until the bugs attack. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/51 "2011-11-04T14:15:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > No, that’s [Argumentum ad baculum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum), literally “appeal to the stick”. Perhaps. But I’m going to forever read that as “Appeal to the [Penis-Bone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baculum)”. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/52 "2011-11-04T23:47:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m a bit confused by the link since all the rules it refers to apply to active-duty service-members, but it begins by saying that a\* retired\* Major General broke the rules by writing a letter encouraging people to vote for a certain candidate. I noticed that too, but they get to it by the end. > [@](#): > > Article 2 of the UCMJ specifically states that retired members are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ. Does that mean that retired commissioned officers are prohibited from using contemptious words against the above officeholders? Technically, yes. But the trick is that you can’t recall someone to active duty simply for disciplinary reasons. So, the guy who wrote the political letter is pretty much fine. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/53 "2011-11-05T00:22:10Z")
> [@RadicalPi](#): > > I noticed that too, but they get to it by the end. > > But the trick is that you can’t recall someone to active duty simply for disciplinary reasons. So, the guy who wrote the political letter is pretty much fine. That’s weird because lots of retired generals have campaigned for various political candidates. I remember both John Kerry and Barack Obama regularly touting the names and ranks of people who supported them and more than a few appeared in campaign commercials with their ranks prominent, often in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/54 "2011-11-05T00:56:42Z")
In practice it means someone on the Retired List is free to be as politically active as any civilian but he should be careful that it does not cross the line into outright slander or insult against the civilian leadership. \* “Candidate X stands for the sort of policies that will keep America strong and end the ill advised experiments of the current leadership”\* will probably get a bye as being not contemptious speech. OTOH there have been reported cases of _active-duty_ higher officers, who should know better, being careless about in what terms they expressed their dissatisfaction, and paying for it, such as (quite egregiously) [MG Harold N. Campbell re: President Clinton](http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/16/us/general-to-be-disciplined-for-disparaging-president.html), and more recently the whole matter with Stanley McChrystal and his staff in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760/55 "2011-11-05T16:02:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Perhaps. But I’m going to forever read that as “Appeal to the [Penis-Bone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baculum)”. Yeah? I got your baculum right here, pal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/001-one-servicemembers-response-to-ows/601760.md?page=2)