# 007 afficiandos - which sucks worse - "Moonraker" or "Die Another Day"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 22, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300 "2008-12-22T12:55:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/1 "2008-12-22T12:55:35Z")
I have, for some time, held the view that “Die Another Day” was the absolute low point of the Bond franchise. The nadir. The pits. Oh, but then I watched “Moonraker” again tonight. Oh man, does that blow! So, where do the Bond afficiandos of the list rate the two films _vis a vis_? Which really is the lowest of the low points for the Bond franchise? Is there, perhaps a lower point which I have missed? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/2 "2008-12-22T13:30:46Z")
I _liked_ **Die Another Day** – it’s a recap of the old Bond years, with something-from-everything, a grab bag of trivia for you to try and figure out, mixed with (I thought) a very well done Bond flick with great stunts and (I know others disagre sharply with this) well done FX. I’ve never understood the hostility to it. My one complaint is Madonna’s awful title song. **Moonraker** , on the other hand, was easily the nadir of the Bond franchise. It was the more puerile of the films by far (Benson’s word, and I agree wholeheartedly), the work of the abominable Christopher Wood, and even worse than his **The Spy Who Loved Me**. Of course, a screenwriter doesn’t set the course for a series – it’s Broccoli and Saltzman’s choice to go this way. But the writing was appalling, _everything_ having to do with Jaws was cringeworthy, the shilling for ad space overblown, and the plot nonsensical. Lots of things about the production rankle (“The Amazoco” ? Ewwwwwwwww.) There _were_ a couple of good things about the film. Every Bond film has at least one redeeming value. The opening stunt, with Bond being pushed out of the plane without a parachute, was stunning, and well-filmed. It’s been duplicated so many times by now that it has lost some of its glamour, but it was original at the time. If only they hadn’t ended it with that coyote-from-the-roadrunner fall by Jaws (flapping his arms! Aaaaaagh!) into a circus tent. And the choice of French actor Michel Lonsdale as Hugo Drax was a great little in-joke. In the book _Moonraker_, Drax is described as being “a Lonsdale type of character.” ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/3 "2008-12-22T14:15:07Z")
Any Bond film with Roger Moore is a low point. \*Moonraker \*just set the bar down a couple of extra notches. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/4 "2008-12-22T14:16:38Z")
Just for the record, besides \*\* Moonraker\*\*, I think that \*\*The Spy Who Loved Me Live and Let Die A View to a Kill The Man With the Golden Gun \*\* and even the Sean Connery outing **Diamonds are Forever** are easily worse than **Die Another Day**. If it hadn’t been the first Bond film I ever saw, **You Only Live Twice** might be in there, too. Of course, the non-Eon **Casino Royale** from the 1960s, starring everbody in the universe (and written and directed by them, too) far outclasses **Moonraker** as the worst purportedly James Bond film ever. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/5 "2008-12-22T14:19:37Z")
So, y’all are saying you liked Octopussy? Takes all kinds, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/6 "2008-12-22T14:28:09Z")
I have to agree with **CalMeacham** , although I thought the ending of **Die Another Day** was a let-down. Bond films should be like Bond himself: sophisticated, surprisingly resourceful and witty. **Moonraker** was absolutely none of these, which is really too bad because the core story could have been the backbone for a great film. What brought it down were all the obnoxious attempts at cheap laughs that were added on. I’ve heard that this film was rushed through production to cash in on the popularity of **Star Wars** , which may explain things. A lot in the film feels like first-draft ideas that were never reconsidered, or last-minute, pre-deadline panic writing. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/7 "2008-12-22T14:32:07Z")
> [@](#): > > So, y’all are saying you liked Octopussy? > > Takes all kinds, I guess. Damn – forgot that one. Musta just slipped my mind. Actually, although the bulk of **Octopussy** was about as bad as any Christopher Wood opus, the beginning of it started out promising, raising me expectations that this would be, like the preceding film **For Your Eyes Only** (one of the best of the Bond films), a return to classic form. They even managed to work in part of “Property of a Lady”, the Bond story that was part of the collection that Octopussy headed, just as FYEO had worked in “Risico”. But then it headed south, dreadfully, and ended up an embarassing mess. Too bad. Louis Jordan was a _great_ Bond villain. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/8 "2008-12-22T14:33:09Z")
**The World Is Not Enough** was worse than **Die Another Day** , but no one realizes this due to some success at scrubbing the stupid from their brains. Denise Richards: Well I’m a nuclear physicist, doncha know! _chews gum vapidly_ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/9 "2008-12-22T14:35:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve heard that this film was rushed through production to cash in on the popularity of Star Wars, which may explain things. A lot in the film feels like first-draft ideas that were never reconsidered, or last-minute, pre-deadline panic writing. In support of that, note that at the end of the previous Bond film, **The Spy Who Loved Me** , at the end of the credits the traditional “James Bond Will Return in…” was followed by “For Your Eyes Only”. Clearly, Moonraker wasn’t their original choice. But that’s still no excuse for it being so bad. And I maintain that, Casino Ryale aside, it’s by far the worst Bond. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/10 "2008-12-22T14:53:48Z")
When your 14 years old and coming off a Star Wars high Moonraker looks pretty good. One effective scene and perhaps the most grisly death portrayed in the series was Corrine’s demise, I can’t imagine any thing more horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/11 "2008-12-22T15:04:48Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, y’all are saying you liked Octopussy? Eww. No. But I think my brain deleted the recall of it as a self-defense measure. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/12 "2008-12-22T16:16:23Z")
Moonraker was by far worse. It put Bond in a setting where he absolutely didn’t belong. For one thing, even though he has sci-fi-esque gadgets that are not genuinely achievable with modern technology, he at least operates in a plausible facsimile of the real world. But the ending of the movie, in which Bond and Holly Goodhead call in the “US Space Force” or something of the sort to fight Drax’s guys using personal rocket-packs and laser weapons - sorry, doesn’t work for me. It was an obvious attempt to shoe-horn Bond into a Star Wars rip-off, and it sucked. Die Another Day isn’t my favorite Bond, but it was head and shoulders above Moonraker. I will say, though, to all you Denise Williams haters, that she made a more convincing nuclear physicist than Halle Berry did a secret agent. And she had (IMHO, of course) much better chemistry with Pierce Brosnan than Berry did too. And BTW, I liked Octopussy, too. The tone was much lighter than the “badass” Bond that everyone here seems crazy about, but I LIKE that Bond has a twinkle in his eye. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/13 "2008-12-22T16:36:15Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, y’all are saying you liked Octopussy? > > Takes all kinds, I guess. I certainly did, but I’m a fan of that kind of cold war fiction, and Maud Adams… aroooooo. And Louis Jordan once said Canada sparkles, so I have to kinda like him. Plus there was that moment when Khan and Gobinda try to drive away but for a few seconds their car won’t start. Kills me every time. Anyway, I personally put _Diamonds are Forever_ at the bottom, closely followed by _View to a Kill_, with a small gap before _The Man With the Golden Gun_ (I figure movies in which the female lead is an idiot get on my nerves). _Moonraker_ and _The Spy Who Loved Me_ are essentially the same movie, and the rest of them range from mediocre to okay. If I had to pick a favourite… hmmmm, I’ll have to get back to you. None of them jump out of the series the way, say, _Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan_ did. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/14 "2008-12-22T17:20:49Z")
Moonraker was ridiculously awful, and I’ll have to echo **Sublight** here. On the other hand, Diamonds Are Forever is great to me, but _only_ for the nostalgia factor (true, the film is really crap, but it’s fun crap). It was one of the first Bonds I paid attention to, and it’s got a great exchange: when the mobster throws the girl out the window, Bond says, “Exceptionally fine shot.” Mobster: “I didn’t know there was a pool down there.” Well, I like that line anyway. DAD is worthy, IMO, because I do like Brosnan in the role. ---
**Author:** ![laughingboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@laughingboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laughingboy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/15 "2008-12-22T17:39:51Z")
Mine is a minority viewpoint, I’m sure, but IMHO the worst bond film is **The Man with the Golden Gun.** Cheesy, chock full of unfunny jokes, and BORING above all else. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/16 "2008-12-22T17:56:38Z")
**A view to a kill** is easily the worst of them all. Moore was about 57 when it was shot and looks that age. Throwing in Grace Jones to try to appeal to a younger audience didn’t work at all. Love interest Stacey Sutton was 29 and it really shows that Moore is twice her age. Zorin setting of a nuclear asplosion to cause an earthquake, making Silicon Valley tumble into the Pacific was already dumb when Alistair Maclean wrote Goodbye California in '78. BTW, few people realize that Moore is three years older than Connery. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/17 "2008-12-22T18:05:57Z")
I liked Moonraker…but I liked it because it WAS campy, yet still Bondish . I guess if they were shooting for something else and it ENDED up with campy, then there is some splainin to do… ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/18 "2008-12-22T18:26:23Z")
> [@laughingboy](#): > > Mine is a minority viewpoint, I’m sure, but IMHO the worst bond film is **The Man with the Golden Gun.** Cheesy, chock full of unfunny jokes, and BORING above all else. But it does have the finest car stunt in cinema history. Thats got to be worth something. ---
**Author:** ![laughingboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@laughingboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laughingboy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/19 "2008-12-22T19:11:54Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > But it does have the finest car stunt in cinema history. Thats got to be worth something. Nah, that scene just gives slide whistles a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Batman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@The\_Batman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Batman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300/20 "2008-12-22T19:25:36Z")
**Die Another Day** is by far the worse. You think space battles are far fetched? How about: An invisible car A Korean man turned into an Englishman A cargo plane flying into a giant laser beam emitted by a satellite Madonna Also, when a movie has ice wiggling like the flimsy plastic it really is you know your franchise is totally over. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/007-afficiandos-which-sucks-worse-moonraker-or-die-another-day/478300.md?page=2)