# 1/3 of overweight people can never lose weight by dieting. T/F? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 24, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391 "2010-06-24T18:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/101 "2010-06-28T02:23:33Z")
“It’s not because I am blessed with “good genes” or have a fast metabolism. It’s because I am very careful about what I eat, and how much I eat. Like you, I am always a little bit hungry, and I never eat until my belly is stuffed.” Have you considered that that ‘little bit hungry’ might feel different to you than someone else with a different physiology? For other people it might feel like a lot greater hunger to stay within the same calorie limits? Ie it might be both will power and genes that means you’ve managed it where other people havent. Otara ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/102 "2010-06-28T02:34:47Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > " > I think we’re talking at cross purposes though. Im not saying that people wont be losing weight if they’re doing the tasks. The problem is ‘doing the tasks’ is a bit like saying ‘just dont inject the heroin then’. Its true but sort of misses the point. THIS is what gets me. If someone is an alcoholic or a drug user or a gambler, they will at LEAST admit they have a mental problem where they “cannot” resist the booze or the meth or the lure of the dog track. They WILL NOT claim booze or meth or gambling tickets MAGICALLY appear within their grasp or that someone forced them upon them or in them. People who eat TOO MUCH on the other hand have a whole nother layer or three of excuses piled upon the REAL problem (which is they just eat too much), which is both intellectually insulting AND prevents them from actually adressing the fundamental problem. Apologies to the actual very TINY fraction out there that have a REAL “metabolism problem”. If “fat people” would just ADMIT they fracking EAT TOO MUCH and can’t help it, I’d give em some credit. But this thread, like all the past ones, will be full of excuses other than that one. Again, the layers of chocolate covered turtles start to make their appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Gruntled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/34f0e0/32.png) [@Gruntled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gruntled)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/103 "2010-06-28T02:56:33Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > Have you considered that that ‘little bit hungry’ might feel different to you than someone else with a different physiology? Have you considered that people who have taught themselves willpower simply deal with this, and that people without that self-discipline don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/104 "2010-06-28T02:59:28Z")
I guess thats a no then Otara ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/105 "2010-06-28T03:13:51Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Or are you suggesting that only 10% keep it off for some other reason other than going back to those old habits which is totally controllable? Actually there is quite a body of work on this subject. It is not 100% clear but there do indeed seem to be some factors other than return to old habits. They can be overcome, but it is swimming against a tide. Let’s start back [here](http://www.contentnejmorg.zuom.info/cgi/content/abstract/332/10/621). > [@](#): > > No current treatment for obesity reliably sustains weight loss, perhaps because compensatory metabolic processes resist the maintenance of the altered body weight. … Maintenance of a reduced or elevated body weight is associated with compensatory changes in energy expenditure, which oppose the maintenance of a body weight that is different from the usual weight. These compensatory changes may account for the poor long-term efficacy of treatments for obesity. to [here](http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/1/R79). > [@](#): > > Maintenance of a body weight 10% above or below that “customary” for lean or obese individuals results in respective increases or decreases in the energy expended in low levels of physical activity (nonresting energy expenditure, NREE). These changes are greater than can be accounted for by the altered body weight or composition and are due mainly to altered skeletal muscle work efficiency at low levels of power generation. … significant declines in glycolytic (phosphofructokinase, PFK) enzyme activity and, in particular, in the ratio of glycolytic to oxidative (cytochrome c oxidase, COX) enzyme activity without significant changes in the activities of enzymes relevant to mitochondrial density, respiratory chain activity, or fuel transport; or in skeletal muscle fiber type or glycogen stores. The fractional change in the ratio of PFK/COX activity in subjects following weight loss was significantly correlated with changes in the systemic respiratory exchange ratio (RER) and measures of mechanical efficiency of skeletal muscle at low workloads (pedaling a bicycle to generate 10 or 25 W of power). To [here](http://spectrum.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/3/166.full). > [@](#): > > while losing weight in the short term is achievable, maintaining reduced body weight over the long term has proven to be exceedingly difficult for most people.10,11 At least part of the reason behind the difficulty of maintaining a reduced body weight is the body’s ability to activate adaptive mechanisms that act to minimize weight loss. … > > … Many different types of studies have demonstrated the importance of genetic factors in the maintenance of body weight, and detailed reviews are available.21,22 Just a few of these studies are described here. To assess the relative contribution of genetics and family environment to body weight in the wider population, a study was conducted two decades ago in Denmark comparing the BMI of \> 500 adoptees with that of their biological and adoptive parents.23 Although there was a positive correlation in BMI between the adoptees and their biological parents, no relationship was found between adoptees and their adoptive parents. > > Metabolic studies of monozygotic twins have also provided compelling evidence for the role of genetics in determining body weight. One study examined the effects of overfeeding on weight gain in pairs of monozygotic twins.24 Although all of the individuals in the study consumed the same amount of calories for the same amount of time (approximately 3 months), there was a large variation in the degree of weight gain, from 8.8 to 29.3 lb, among different individuals. However, the amount of weight gain was very similar within each twin pair. The reverse also holds true. When moderately obese monozygotic twins were kept on a low-calorie diet, the amount of weight loss varied greatly among different pairs of twins.25 However, within each pair of twins, the amount of weight loss was quite similar. These results indicate that the body’s response to changes in caloric intake is dictated at least in part by genetics. … > > … A plausible hypothesis that can account for the body’s tendency to return to its prior weight can be stated as follows: body weight is maintained at a set level, and deviations from the preferred set point are resisted and minimized by a feedback control system. > > This so-called set-point theory of body weight regulation has been slowly developed over a number of years and backed by a plethora of experimental approaches.11,44 … > > …In addition to decreasing energy expenditure, weight loss is also associated with an increase in appetite.57 Doucet et al.58 reported that subjects who successfully underwent a weight-loss program consisting of energy restriction plus exercise reported an increase in the fasting desire to eat, as well as a more intense feeling of hunger, coupled with greater food consumption. The increased hunger in these subjects was associated with higher levels of fasting cortisol. > > Diet-induced weight loss is also associated with increased basal and postprandial ghrelin levels.59 Ghrelin is an orexigenic hormone that is secreted primarily by the stomach and duodenum.60 Normally, ghrelin levels rise before meals (associated with the urge to eat) and are suppressed after eating.61 In addition to appetite stimulation, the administration of exogenous ghrelin is associated with a decrease in metabolic rate62 and fat catabolism.63 Thus, higher levels of ghrelin after weight loss promote weight regain by two mechanisms: an increase in energy intake combined with a decrease in energy expenditure. > > In summary, regulation of body weight involves complex signaling systems and compensatory changes in appetite and metabolic efficiency. Current evidence points to the existence of a set point that makes weight loss or gain progressively difficult. And [here](http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v28/n10/full/0802787a.html). > [@](#): > > A need for a continuous life-long support is now more widely recognized due to the increasing knowledge in genetics where many obese have an inherited susceptibility of developing obesity. Furthermore, the Set-Point Theory of the regulation of body weight gets more support and has been modified to a ‘Settling Zone’ Theory. Biology may determine a range of body weights (adiposity) that are maintained fairly constant for long periods of time, within this ‘zone’, the behaviors responsible for controlling energy intake and energy expenditure are influenced primarily by environmental and cognitive stimuli.47 Thus, it is difficult to deviate from a set point zone for body fat and body weight. … Behavioral. cognitive therapy is effective in treating childhood obesity48 as is family therapy.42 These treatments emphasizes a nonblaming position showing the clinical usefulness of the Set-Point Theory. Ah but the experts here would prefer to ignore the actual science and especially that last bit, about how a nonblaming position makes for more effective interventions. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/106 "2010-06-28T03:40:11Z")
Oh, the first one I said “back” because it was old - since then bariatric surgery has come around as an effective treatment for morbid obesity and severe obesity with significant comorbidities. Again, part of how it works is that it limits how much goes in at a time, but a larger part of how it works is shaping up to be that getting the calories to the intestine faster causes a host of hormonal changes that both counter diabetes and the effects of weight change on ghrelin and leptin levels. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/107 "2010-06-28T05:06:23Z")
> [@Gruntled](#): > > Have you considered that people who have taught themselves willpower simply deal with this, and that people without that self-discipline don’t? Have you ever watched one of those super-obese documentaries? Those changed my way of thinking about fatness completely. These are people who literally cannot think of anything except eating tens of thousands of calories in one sitting. Not eating is a clearly painful effort for them. _NOT_ eating six dozen cookies doesn’t require self-discipline for me any more than it requires self-discipline to not to drink a bottle of Drano, and I think that’s true of “normal” people. Yet, for those people, it’s clearly a herculean effort to stop in the middle of eating 6 dozen cookies. There’s clearly a spectrum of how much actual willpower is required to overcome the temptation of food here. ---
**Author:** ![Acantha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@Acantha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acantha)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/108 "2010-06-28T09:13:45Z")
I don’t always assume a fat person sits around eating all day. I was naturally thin for most of my life, then suddenly started gaining weight for no reason, without any change in my diet or lifestyle. After several years a doctor finally told me I had a hormonal imbalance, NOT thyroid. Within a month I dropped 18 pounds with no effort. I have continued to lose weight simply from continuing hormone therapy. I also have a sleep disorder, and apparently that can cause weight gain, high blood pressure and many other health problems if left unchecked. Several doctors told me it was ‘normal’ for women ‘my age’ to gain weight and completely discounted all of my complaints about my health, when in fact I was very sick, and the weight gain was just one of many symptoms. One doctor even accused me of lying when I gave her a list of what I ate during the week. She also prescribed a medication for me that had a known side effect of causing weight gain, the bitch, thinking I wouldn’t check the PDR and call her on it. I would venture a guess many overweight people have experienced the same thing when they go to the doctor. The attitude I got was ‘you can’t expect to stay thin your whole life.’ ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/109 "2010-06-28T11:44:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you considered that that ‘little bit hungry’ might feel different to you than someone else with a different physiology? For other people it might feel like a lot greater hunger to stay within the same calorie limits? I quit taking a couple of medicines over 2 years ago. Since then, I’ve lost about 33% of my total body weight. And the thing is, I am much less hungry now than when I was taking those particular medicines. When I was taking them, I was extremely hungry all the time. Now that I’ve quit taking them, sometimes I have to remind myself that I really do need at least two meals a day, because otherwise I’ll eat one small meal (and then pass out from low blood sugar). There is an enormous difference in the sort of frenzied hunger that I felt when I was taking those meds, and the mild appetite I feel these days. I suppose that I could claim to be virtuous, and just say that I’m exerting more willpower these days, but the fact is that those meds stimulated my appetite while supressing my metabolism. It’s not my willpower that’s changed, it’s my physiology. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/110 "2010-06-28T12:18:36Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “It’s not because I am blessed with “good genes” or have a fast metabolism. It’s because I am very careful about what I eat, and how much I eat. Like you, I am always a little bit hungry, and I never eat until my belly is stuffed.” > > Have you considered that that ‘little bit hungry’ might feel different to you than someone else with a different physiology? For other people it might feel like a lot greater hunger to stay within the same calorie limits? > > Ie it might be both will power and genes that means you’ve managed it where other people havent. > > Otara It might be in some cases. In some cases its because people eat until they are sated and think “a little bit hungry” is something that needs to be taken care of. And I suspect that in most cases, reading your bodies hunger signals as very urgent is learned - which is why overweight kids are such a sad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/111 "2010-06-28T13:16:39Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If someone is an alcoholic or a drug user or a gambler, they will at LEAST admit they have a mental problem where they “cannot” resist the booze or the meth or the lure of the dog track. > > They WILL NOT claim booze or meth or gambling tickets MAGICALLY appear within their grasp or that someone forced them upon them or in them. > > People who eat TOO MUCH on the other hand have a whole nother layer or three of excuses piled upon the REAL problem (which is they just eat too much), which is both intellectually insulting AND prevents them from actually adressing the fundamental problem. Apologies to the actual very TINY fraction out there that have a REAL “metabolism problem”. > > If “fat people” would just ADMIT they fracking EAT TOO MUCH and can’t help it, I’d give em some credit. But this thread, like all the past ones, will be full of excuses other than that one. > > Again, the layers of chocolate covered turtles start to make their appearance. But one huge difference with food is that you can completely give up alcohol, drugs or gambling but you can’t completely give up eating. What if someone with a drinking problem HAD to drink just a _little_ alcohol every day but no more? For someone with a compulsion, whether psychological or physiological in origin, that’s an incredibly frustrating situation to be in. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/112 "2010-06-28T13:43:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > But one huge difference with food is that you can completely give up alcohol, drugs or gambling but you can’t completely give up eating. What if someone with a drinking problem HAD to drink just a _little_ alcohol every day but no more? For someone with a compulsion, whether psychological or physiological in origin, that’s an incredibly frustrating situation to be in. It is frustrating to diet/eat right. It is not physically impossible (beside rare medical cases) . You don’t magically gain weight. Nobody is forcing you to eat. Yes, SOME people have metabolisms that are marvels of medical science. SOME people cannot control their weight due to certain medicines (I know one). SOME people have an urge to eat that is so strong it probably ranks up there with the mental illnesses like hoarding and life destroying levels of OCD. But, IMO and personal experience, MOST people do NOT fall into those categories. They just eat too much, don’t try particularly hard or smartly or keep it up, and just plain lie to themselves and everyone else about how much they actually eat. Its in their head that they want and need to eat too much. THATS what they need to ADMIT and THATS what they need to FIX. All this other stuff is irrelevant to solving the problem. I guess only yourself and God know if you have a legimate excuse or not. But, IMO these exceptions to the rule and all this handwaving about how hard or complicated or unfair it is that get trotted out everytime a weight thread comes up just does more harm than good and perpetuates the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/113 "2010-06-28T14:52:36Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > It is frustrating to diet/eat right. No. At least not for me, so not necessarily for everybody. When I eat what I need to eat, I move to a lower weight, I enjoy food more and I generally feel better; whenever I find myself thinking “gee, I could use a snack” I look at the watch and it’s actually time to start preparing the next real meal, no snacks. Right now, I’m in a new job where we have to eat at work 4 days/week; it is forbidden to bring your own food into the building. The food from the cantina is already having a similar effect as my mother’s: I’m gaining weight, it’s either overcooked or drowned in sauces or both, it leaves me sluggish and I’m hungry again within one hour of having finished. The plan for the next trip to the big supermarket involves buying a small fridge-bag and some of those plastic things you freeze to help keep things cold. Work is not allowed to mess up my health, damnit! Finding out what kind of meals have that effect on me took a lot of trial and error, though. Most of the recipes and rules I’ve seen wouldn’t work, because they make assumptions which are not true in my case; for example, assuming that people love pastries, potatoes or bread - I’d be perfectly happy in a world with neither of the first two and only miss the third with my sunny-side-up eggs. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/114 "2010-06-28T16:41:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I am convinced that at least a subset of obese persons are literally “carboholics”- for some reason, dense carbohydrates like refined sugar or white flour trigger a pleasure-addiction mechanism highly similar to how alcohol effects some people. I know this has been poo-pooed on this board before but it seems to match what I’ve observed, and it would explain why _some_ people do great on low-carb diets. There isn’t a once-size-fits-all solution. Hi, I’m digs, and I’m a Carbo-holic.\* (“Hi, digs!”)\* Reading this post was an eye-opener. • “Dense carbohydrates?” check. • “Trigger a pleasure-addiction mechanism”? Oh, yeaaaah. • “Highly similar to how alcohol effects some people?” Well, possibly more so. So I’m going to put away the Frosted Flakes (yes, literally–I’m eating them for lunch) and get out on my bike. And think about getting tough on myself because I. Have. An, Addiction. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/115 "2010-06-28T18:38:58Z")
To make things even more complicated, your satiety response is not immediate - it takes about a half an hour to feel full. Most people, thin or overweight, don’t eat a particular size of meal, wait half an hour to see if they really are full, and then eat a bit more if they truly are still hungry. ---
**Author:** ![Gruntled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/34f0e0/32.png) [@Gruntled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gruntled)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/116 "2010-06-28T18:57:16Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > To make things even more complicated, your satiety response is not immediate - it takes about a half an hour to feel full. Most people, thin or overweight, don’t eat a particular size of meal, wait half an hour to see if they really are full, and then eat a bit more if they truly are still hungry. But again, if you’re really serious about losing weight, you **do** do this. Every one of the people I know who has taken personal responsibility for their weight does exactly this. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/117 "2010-06-28T19:11:04Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > To make things even more complicated, your satiety response is not immediate - it takes about a half an hour to feel full. Most people, thin or overweight, don’t eat a particular size of meal, wait half an hour to see if they really are full, and then eat a bit more if they truly are still hungry. Thats **exactly** what I do. I do it mostly because I feel like shit if I overeat. But, if instead, I was trying to keep from getting fat, I’d do the same thing. I generally don’t eat breakfast, besides a cup or two of coffee with a little sugar and milk. If I know its going to be hard day I might force down an apple or bannana or some oatmeal. Lunch will be something like a can of soup or small sandwich or a salad. Dinner will be a portion thats about half of what most people eat. A few daily SMALL snacks and drinks round out my day. For your typical eat out meal, I typically eat about half and take the other half home to serve for lunch the next day. I eat out about once a week. I may not eat healthy (though I am starting to begin addressing that). But I dont eat much. It aint my miracle metabolism that keeps me thin. Its portion control. And yes, I am vaguely hungry most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Gruntled](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/34f0e0/32.png) [@Gruntled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gruntled)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/118 "2010-06-28T19:21:40Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Thats **exactly** what I do. Waiting for the fatties to come charging in, whining that “it’s tooo haaaaard”. It’s tooo complicated! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/119 "2010-06-28T20:19:01Z")
I can’t believe these threads still get so much action. My penny: It is a simple fact that everyone needs food to maintain life and the flesh on their bodies. Everyone will have less flesh on their bodies if the reduce their intake enough. Where we all crash into each other and it turns into a mess is in discussing what “enough” means, and the scientifically established fact that for many people, “enough” means something far more difficult and extreme than it means for others. The amount of food required to sustain some obese bodies is often far less than you’d ever imagine, and there’s reasons why that is so. But first please recognize that it is definitely so. Which should not be taken to mean that I am claiming that all fat people eat lightly and get fat anyway, I’m not and that’s not true. But the widely held belief that all fat people are out of control gluttons isn’t true either. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391/120 "2010-06-28T20:59:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I can’t believe these threads still get so much action. > … Well it seems that any thread about obesity is an excuse for some to derail into their rants about “fatties” are just lazy sacks without will power, not like how great they are. Is there any other segment of our population that still has to tolerate that kind of open and _tolerated_ hateful speech? That is bullied as pervasively? Every jerkwad believes that if they are not fat they are an “expert” … if only the lazy weak idiots would listen to them. The science is clear and excerpts from (and links to) cites documenting the biology involved that make it very difficult for an obese individual to lose weight and to keep it off, and that make it mildly difficult for a normal weight individual to put it on and easy for them to lose it again, have been provided. A summary of just some of the evidence regarding the huge role that genetic predisposition plays when coupled with an obesogenic environment has also been provided. But even the more intelligent posters here cannot seem to be bothered to read it: > [@Dangerosa](#): > > And I suspect that in most cases, reading your bodies hunger signals as very urgent is learned > [@Diabetes Spectrum July 2007 vol. 20 no. 3 166-170](#): > > Many different types of studies have demonstrated the importance of genetic factors in the maintenance of body weight, and detailed reviews are available.21,22 Just a few of these studies are described here … Although there was a positive correlation in BMI between the adoptees and their biological parents, no relationship was found between adoptees and their adoptive parents. > > Metabolic studies of monozygotic twins have also provided compelling evidence for the role of genetics in determining body weight. One study examined the effects of overfeeding on weight gain in pairs of monozygotic twins.24 Although all of the individuals in the study consumed the same amount of calories for the same amount of time (approximately 3 months), there was a large variation in the degree of weight gain, from 8.8 to 29.3 lb, among different individuals. However, the amount of weight gain was very similar within each twin pair. The reverse also holds true. When moderately obese monozygotic twins were kept on a low-calorie diet, the amount of weight loss varied greatly among different pairs of twins.25 However, within each pair of twins, the amount of weight loss was quite similar … Suspect all you want, in most case it seems that genetics is more primary, given living a modern Western society. There is a lot of interesting work going on in obesity right now, recognizing how the prenatal environment sets the stage for obesity to develop later in childhood, how an early “adiposity rebound” presages later obesity, and how intervention in childhood is critical. But people already “know” what they need to know and for those less intelligent than others that means it’s open season to insult the obese. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-3-of-overweight-people-can-never-lose-weight-by-dieting-t-f/544391.md?page=7)