# 1/6/21 insurrection post mortem: How did it happen? What could/should have been done? What should be the response? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915 "2021-01-07T14:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/61 "2021-01-07T19:00:48Z")
If that’s going to happen, the first necessary step is to purge them from law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/62 "2021-01-07T19:04:54Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Anyone and everyone pushing through and attempting entry to the building _should have been shot to death._ I have no problem with them starting with less than lethal methods, rubber bullets, tear gas and the like. Then turning to more lethal munitions if that didn’t get the point across. But they didn’t even do that. There was _no_ effective resistance by Capitol police. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/63 "2021-01-07T19:06:17Z")
Be careful, or you are going to be accused of wanting to defund the police. If we purge all the white supremacists from law enforcement, who is left? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/64 "2021-01-07T19:11:59Z")
The law enforcement issue is what makes me most uncomfortable about this situation. In itself, I’m not worried about the disorganized bluster of the macho mob yesterday any more than I’m worried about terrorists hiding in caves. They are going to crumble in a second when faced with professional security and law enforcement. But when you’re not sure which side the cops are really on, that puts a whole new spin on things. It’s a step beyond just the issues with racism. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/65 "2021-01-07T19:12:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But they didn’t even do that. There was _no_ effective resistance by Capitol police. But, but, but . . [according to Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund,](https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/statement-steven-sund-chief-police) they had a “robust” plan to handle that day’s expected protests and officers acted “valiantly.” I predict this guy is out on his ass within days. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/66 "2021-01-07T19:16:21Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I predict this guy is out on his ass within days. Medal Of Freedom first. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/67 "2021-01-07T19:18:12Z")
The National Guard was late to arrive because when they were called out they had to run home to change out of their MAGA gear and into their uniforms. Nothing to see here. It’s the same reason Miley Cyrus is always late for the Hannah Montana concerts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/68 "2021-01-07T19:23:18Z")
If we are gonna make this all about past issues with cops killing black men, this thread will go nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/69 "2021-01-07T19:28:58Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Essentially, they were trying to have a coup - they were going to deny that Biden won despite every factual and legal source indicating that it was true, and try to get Trump installed as president anyway. Except- most admitted that that it was only a gesture, I dont think any Congressperson thought it would work. So, no, not _trying to have a coup_ - they were making a gesture to placate the MAGAs, and perhaps get them to vote for thm 4 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/70 "2021-01-07T19:36:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except- most admitted that that it was only a gesture, I dont think any Congressperson thought it would work. Sure, they voted for something, knowing they didn’t have the necessary majority. But I don’t think you can just shrug that off as “just politics” like you would if what they were voting for was a routine piece of legislation. They voted for a coup. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/71 "2021-01-07T19:54:55Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > How can we call him incompetent? He won, and stayed in power and fucked everything up and got what he wanted for 4 years, and even now, he can still have the fucking Capitol raided on a whim. This is not losing. This is not an incompetent man. Clearly, he is insane. He is evil. He is criminal. But somehow, he keeps winning. Trump didn’t win yesterday. He lost again. He lost when he tried to get re-elected legally. He lost when he tried to get re-elected in the courts. And he lost when he tried to get re-elected by a riot. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/72 "2021-01-07T20:04:41Z")
What about all the other times? Near as I can tell, Trump’s goals are 1. To live a lavish lifestyle beyond the dreams of avarice 2. To be the center of a cult of adoration, with toadies and hangers-on everywhere 3. To be able to fuck over people when he wants to By any objective measure, he has won again and again and again his whole life. Their have been upsets, moments where some of those things have trembled–but he’s literally turned it around every single time. He’s not incompetent. Most of his life is the story of him getting what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/73 "2021-01-07T20:16:48Z")
How’d it happen? Variety of factors. A big factor is media and speech that resonates emotionally. There is little market for droll arguments and copious facts and statistics. That’s why we look at flawed GDP instead of a huge list of what is produced to measure economic strength of countries. Another factor is that there is a systematic and long running movement to undermine the philosophical foundation of the classical, Western, liberalism. The sad thing is that there is nothing productive we can do about it. Steps to prevent speech and assembly will turn the nation into an authoritarian police state with massive surveillance. We can’t change minds because domestic and foreign interests recognize and have the tools to exploit the radicals. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/74 "2021-01-07T20:32:11Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What was the point of calling out the Nat’l Guard so late? It seemed they appeared when things were pretty much calmed down. The DC National Guard had to be called by the White House. Pence finally activated them, but you can excuse him for having other things on his mind. I believe that the Virginia and Maryland guards were also activated, but they couldn’t just march into DC without some invitation. They should have moved faster, but not as much as a cockup as the Capitol Police not having enough officers there. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/75 "2021-01-07T20:34:14Z")
Does the name “Trump” included in any part of your answer? Or is it all what is being taught in political philosophy classes? I’m sure most of the rioters were political philosophy majors, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/76 "2021-01-07T20:40:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m sure most of the rioters were political philosophy majors, after all. And confused economists. The root of the problem here is that their grasp on reality has been undermined in recent years by the fact that we use the wrong GDP measure. > [@octopus](#): > > There is little market for droll arguments and copious facts and statistics. That’s why we look at flawed GDP Didn’t you see the hats with their slogan, More Accurate GDP Accounting! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/77 "2021-01-07T20:46:51Z")
Wut? It was an example of how information is packaged and consumed. Majority of folks don’t want reams of data. They want quick info and emotional stimulation. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/78 "2021-01-07T20:51:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It was an example of how information is packaged and consumed. Majority of folks don’t want reams of data. They want quick info and emotional stimulation. Now that you’ve explained more fully it I totally understand how the format of GDP reporting is an apt example that grants such insight into what’s going on in U.S. politics at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/79 "2021-01-07T21:07:08Z")
Majority of folks don’t storm the US Capital. It sounds like you’re just calling Trump supporters stupid. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915/80 "2021-01-07T21:12:41Z")
I don’t think you do. Nor do I think you understand how powerful emotional rhetoric is compared with dry analysis. You are fixated on a specific example being equivalent to a general principle. Either that or you are just engaged in mockery. We are living in an era where communication is so rapid, cheap, and powerful that we have not developed cultural defenses against emotional manipulation at the scale we are seeing. If anything, I’m surprised that the violence and unrest from the radical fringes isn’t more widespread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-6-21-insurrection-post-mortem-how-did-it-happen-what-could-should-have-been-done-what-should-be-the-response/929915.md?page=5)