# 1. Canadian nukes? 2. US reaction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355 "2005-10-15T14:39:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/21 "2005-10-15T22:27:18Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > “Aw, shoot! Quebec’s got the Bomb!” ROTFLMAO! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/22 "2005-10-15T22:31:26Z")
Just don’t let them fall into the hands of Celine Dion, eh? That woman is _scary_. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/23 "2005-10-15T22:31:46Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > If it were the democrats, they would be very disorganized and somehow reduce the military as they combined them. That would be very unfortunate, for we have several people in our military. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/24 "2005-10-15T22:44:12Z")
I’m hoping Canada invades us and overthrows the Bush regime. He’s a tyrant with WMD. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/25 "2005-10-15T22:50:42Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Don’t bother with Nukes. US won’t invade. When Florida and the Gulf coast states sink beneath rising seas, and global warming extends the Arizona desert to the fringes of Iowa and North Dakota, Canada will be damned glad it developed tactical nukes to stave off the ravening southern hordes. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/26 "2005-10-15T23:05:26Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Do Canadians really fear the US? I expect some do. My take on it is that the USA gets what it wants, and does not let anything stand in its way. Iraq is about oil, not human rights. The undermining and overthrowing of democratically elected governments is about economics, not human rights. As long as Canada jumps to the American tune, we have nothing to fear. If, however, we go our own way, and if that way economically harms the USA, then we would have a lot to fear. When it comes to the USA’s behaviour, principles have not stood in the way of cheap bananas, or cheap copper, or a cheap tank of gas. How can Canada pick its own course? By developing stronger trade with nations of than the USA, so that when the USA tries to harm us economically, as it has with softwood lumber trade, we will be better able to stand up for ourselves. However, if the development of such overseas trade means diverting oil away from the USA, then it could get us in very hot water with the USA – perhaps hot enough that the USA might liberate us. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/27 "2005-10-15T23:18:24Z")
For folks who remember Dief being ousted, fear of American meddling in Canadian politics over nukes is justified: [http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SAN303D.html](http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SAN303D.html) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/28 "2005-10-15T23:34:36Z")
> [@](#): > > First, should Canada arm itself with nuclear weapons? If they want to. I suspect that they do have access to US nukes in Canada (off the record). > [@](#): > > Second, what would the American reaction be should we arm ourselves with nukes? Re-affirm our commitment to be allies. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/29 "2005-10-15T23:34:41Z")
You all seem to be ignoring one rather obvious fact. If Canada pursued nuclear weapons, they’d be in violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. By so doing, they’d be placing themselves in the rather non-august company of North Korea, India, Pakistan, and arguably Israel and Iran. Those are not exactly the best company to keep on the international stage. Why would Canada ever want to alienate itself from the mainsteam of the international community? Why would Canada want to reinvent itself as a rogue state? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/30 "2005-10-15T23:54:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If Canada pursued nuclear weapons, they’d be in violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. Nah, they could just withdraw from the NPT. [Under Article Ten](http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/text/npt2.htm): > [@](#): > > Article X > > 1. Each Party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country. It shall give notice of such withdrawal to all other Parties to the Treaty and to the United Nations Security Council three months in advance. Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events it regards as having jeopardized its supreme interests. The NPT’s pretty moribund these days anyway. There might be some international griping, as there was when the [US withdrew from the ABM treaty in 2002](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1707812.stm), but no one would try to conquer Canada over the issue. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/31 "2005-10-16T00:28:57Z")
Canadian nukes? Um, no. Paranoid delusions aside, what would be the point? US Reaction? Mostly stunned disbelief followed by suspicion that the French are taking over… 😛 Get real. Because the US invaded Iraq there are actually people silly enough to think that we’d invade Canada? When we can BUY anything they sell? When we are in the same alliance with them? When we are in the same TRADE alliance with them?? This would be funny if it were a joke thread. Its sad that its now. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/32 "2005-10-16T00:57:58Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > That’s one the silliest things I’ve ever read on this board. > > Even if your outrageous claims were true, are you aware that Canada is a member of NATO? If the US invaded, every other [NATO](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nato) member would be obliged to intervene on Canada’s behalf. Including the US. So what ? America doesn’t care about treaties or alliances, and the other countries don’t have the military power to stop us short of nukes. > [@Ravenman](#): > > You all seem to be ignoring one rather obvious fact. If Canada pursued nuclear weapons, they’d be in violation of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. By so doing, they’d be placing themselves in the rather non-august company of North Korea, India, Pakistan, and arguably Israel and Iran. Those are not exactly the best company to keep on the international stage. Why would Canada ever want to alienate itself from the mainsteam of the international community? Why would Canada want to reinvent itself as a rogue state? If it really does get to the point where the Canadians fear invasion, a treaty most people ignore will the the last of their worries. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/33 "2005-10-16T01:03:00Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > So what ? America doesn’t care about treaties or alliances, and the other countries don’t have the military power to stop us short of nukes. The US doesn’t care about NATO, huh? So, in your mind the US would break off our NATO alliance and start WWIII to make sure Canada didn’t get nukes. Why haven’t we invaded Iran yet, then? Or NK? Or Pakistan? Or India? Or Israel? We’re OK with them having nukes, but not Canada. Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/34 "2005-10-16T01:10:21Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The US doesn’t care about NATO, huh? > > So, in your mind the US would break off our NATO alliance and start WWIII to make sure Canada didn’t get nukes. Why haven’t we invaded Iran yet, then? Or NK? Or Pakistan? Or India? Or Israel? We’re OK with them having nukes, but not Canada. Is that what you’re saying? Except for Iran, they already have nukes; we’re bullies, not fools. The only reason we haven’t invaded Iran is because we’re bogged down in Iraq; I’m sure the original plan was : Invade Iraq; people throw flowers; build bases; invade Iran ( and probably Syria ). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/35 "2005-10-16T01:13:54Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Except for Iran, they already have nukes; we’re bullies, not fools. The only reason we haven’t invaded Iran is because we’re bogged down in Iraq; I’m sure the original plan was : Invade Iraq; people throw flowers; build bases; invade Iran ( and probably Syria ). Was this just Bush’s plan, or Congress’ as well? You are aware, of course, that the president can’t invade a country w/o the consent of Congress, right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/36 "2005-10-16T01:16:52Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Was this just Bush’s plan, or Congress’ as well? You are aware, of course, that the president can’t invade a country w/o the consent of Congress, right? You mean the Congress controlled by Republicans ? Come on, at least until his poll numbers went down they would have voted for invading Mars if he asked them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/37 "2005-10-16T01:54:08Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > You mean the Congress controlled by Republicans ? Come on, at least until his poll numbers went down they would have voted for invading Mars if he asked them. I’m just trying to get all the details of this particular conspiracy theory straight. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/38 "2005-10-16T02:01:44Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m just trying to get all the details of this particular conspiracy theory straight. “Conspiracy theory” ? So the Republicans\* don’t\* control all three branches of government, we didn’t invade Iraq, we haven’t spewed threatening rhetoric towards Syria and Iran, and I’m hallucinating ? _That’s_ a relief. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/39 "2005-10-16T02:02:29Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I expect some do. My take on it is that the USA gets what it wants, and does not let anything stand in its way. Iraq is about oil, not human rights. The undermining and overthrowing of democratically elected governments is about economics, not human rights. As long as Canada jumps to the American tune, we have nothing to fear. If, however, we go our own way, and if that way economically harms the USA, then we would have a lot to fear. When it comes to the USA’s behaviour, principles have not stood in the way of cheap bananas, or cheap copper, or a cheap tank of gas. > > How can Canada pick its own course? By developing stronger trade with nations of than the USA, so that when the USA tries to harm us economically, as it has with softwood lumber trade, we will be better able to stand up for ourselves. However, if the development of such overseas trade means diverting oil away from the USA, then it could get us in very hot water with the USA – perhaps hot enough that the USA might liberate us. Thats what I meant by ‘my propaganda is different’. I feel Iraq was about human rights, you feel it was about oil. Gulf war I was about oil, I don’t think Gulf war II was. Gulf war I (which as I said, really was about oil) was supported by a multitude of nations including Canada, France, Russia & Germany. What is the official Canadian position on Gulf war I? Based on what I’ve heard about George W Bush saying in private about Kim Jong Il I think human rigths are an important priority for him and actually pushed him into Gulf war II. Let the flames begin. “I loathe Kim Jong Il. I’ve got a visceral reaction to this guy, because he is starving his people. And I have seen intelligence of these prison camps – they’re huge – that he uses to break up families and to torture people. It appalls me.” -GWB And aside from Chile (which was on the verge of military overthrow anyway due to Allende consolidating power) and maybe Guatemala (which was 50 years ago) I don’t know of many examples of the US overthrowing democratic governments. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355/40 "2005-10-16T02:04:25Z")
Nicaragua may need to be added to that list. As I said though I don’t think human rights mattered in US foreign policy intil post vietnam though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-canadian-nukes-2-us-reaction/326355.md?page=3)