# 1 good thing about Hillary, she hates capitalism. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 2, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772 "2016-09-02T13:27:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/1 "2016-09-02T13:27:56Z")
So Hillary of the failed Clinton Health Care reform has said that she will go after drug companies that charge exorbitantly high prices that bear no relation with actual costs. Drug companies that do that may suffer legal consequences including fines. The failure of Obamacare is that it did not accomplish its stated purpose of lowering health care costs. Instead it was half-assed insurance reform that shows that the Pubs knew what they were talking about. Health care costs have gone UP since ACA passed. Poor people are being denied appropriate insurance because the insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges in low income counties. The first death panels have been set up. OK maybe not the last one but the first two are accurate. So if Her Royal Harpiness will also go after health providers such as hospitals, labs and doctors that likewise price-gouge Americans I may actually have to vote for her. Question is does she have the balls to follow through when elected? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/2 "2016-09-02T13:40:24Z")
I’m not clear what position you’re taking here. She will probably attempt to do something, and unless there is a Democratic congress accomplish nothing. Even then Hillary is all about motive without regard to results. That’s pretty much her entire track record so far. The problem you discuss is not capitalism, it’s the lack of it. The government regulates away competition. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/3 "2016-09-02T13:54:31Z")
Obamacare is not a \*complete \*failure–that is another [del]lie[/del] myth that the Republicans are spreading. [When Facts Meet Rhetoric: The Success of Obamacare](http://www.populist.com/22.15.retsinas.html) > [@](#): > > The law is not Utopian. Utopia exists only in fiction. But the law has accomplished some major feats. In this season of rhetorical outrage, it is time to broadcast those statistical successes. > > The Act sought primarily to expand outreach. Before passage, roughly 44 million Americans were uninsured, with at least as many “underinsured,” paying for policies that covered little care, at exorbitant costs. The linkage between employment and health insurance was never robust: many employers didn’t, or couldn’t, pay for health insurance. Many employees couldn’t pay the cost-sharing premiums. And part-time, temporary, “contract,” and self-employed workers were akimbo in the employer-based system. > > Today, the number of uninsured has shrunk to roughly 33 million. From 2013 to 2014, the percentage of uninsured dropped from 13.4 to 10%… > > Before Obamacare, high school and college graduates found themselves with diplomas, yet without coverage. Their parents’ policies did not routinely cover them after age 19 unless they were full-time students. Their health care costs tend to be minor: those new graduates have yet to encounter the expensive diseases of their parents. Diabetes, heart disease, cancer, multiple sclerosis, arthritis – all may lie in their future, but not in the immediate present. Yet insurers said “no.” Today’s policies let people (whether dependent or not) stay on their parents’ policies until age 26. In 2009 30% of this age-cohort had no insurance; in 2014, 14%. > > Since 1965, poor Americans with children relied on Medicaid, the joint federal-state insurance program; but poor people without children generally did not qualify. Furthermore, states could set low eligibility limits. The Act opened the doors of Medicaid, allowing states to expand coverage, raise income eligibility. (Initially, the law demanded that states open their Medicaid doors; the Supreme Court ruled that states had the choice). To date, 31 states have expanded Medicaid: in these states, the number of uninsured has, predictably, shrunk. In the states that refused, bowing to ideology over compassion (or even common sense, since the federal government included generous subsidies to states for expansion), the number of uninsured has not shrunk dramatically. (Income-eligibility in those states is $8,870 for a family of three)… And on and on. Read the FACTS. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/4 "2016-09-02T14:08:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Poor people are being denied appropriate insurance because the insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges in low income counties. “Poor people are being denied appropriate insurance because [del]the insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges in low income counties.[/del] GOP-controlled states wouldn’t take free Medicaid money if it meant helping the poors, after CJ John Roberts allowed them to refuse it.” Fixed that for you. ETA: > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > does she have the balls No. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/5 "2016-09-02T14:34:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > And on and on. Read the FACTS. Obamacare did succeed in getting more people covered however if you want to discuss facts then address that under ACA: 1. Health care costs have risen. 2. Poor people are being hurt by insurance companies pulling out of the echanges in low-income areas which is apparently legal. BUT this thread is about Hillary. **ACA did nothing to control health care costs.** Hillary at least says she will start to control drug costs and THAT is something we haven’t seen before re: health care reform. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/6 "2016-09-02T14:38:14Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > “Poor people are being denied appropriate insurance because [del]the insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges in low income counties.[/del] GOP-controlled states wouldn’t take free Medicaid money if it meant helping the poors, after CJ John Roberts allowed them to refuse it.” > > Fixed that for you. So you are denying my point that insurance companies are pulling out of exchanges in low-income areas? Or did you just want to make a [redacted to avoid warning] blast against Republicans that doesn’t address the thread at all? And since you did nothing to address the actual point of the thread, do you think Hillary will actually get legislation passed to control drug costs? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/7 "2016-09-02T14:41:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The problem you discuss is not capitalism, it’s the lack of it. The government regulates away competition. But this is the opposite of what you said. Why can Mylan charge whatever it wants for the EPi-Pen? No competition and inelastic demand. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/8 "2016-09-02T14:54:38Z")
OP’s arguments are classic libertarian thought, which lead as always to confused arguments. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/9 "2016-09-02T14:59:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So you are denying my point that insurance companies are pulling out of exchanges in low-income areas? Or did you just want to make a [redacted to avoid warning] blast against Republicans that doesn’t address the thread at all? Neither. I was making the point that it was the refusal of the Medicaid expansion by some states that resulted in persons and families below 138% of the poverty line having the least bit of risk of losing coverage under Obamacare. In states that accepted the Federal Medicaid expansion money, no persons or families in poverty have to worry about losing coverage due to **anything** that happens in the Exchanges. That poor people in some states are affected by the Exchanges isn’t due to Obamacare; it’s due to a deliberate _monkeywrenching_ of Obamacare. Blame the monkeywrenchers. > [@](#): > > And since you did nothing to address the actual point of the thread, do you think Hillary will actually get legislation passed to control drug costs? Your OP was so confused that it was hard to tell what the point of the thread was, given the minimal connection among its three paragraphs, and even less connection between them and the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/10 "2016-09-02T14:59:57Z")
Hey I actually like something Hillary had done or said for once. Of course I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/11 "2016-09-02T15:00:13Z")
And nonsensical conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/12 "2016-09-02T15:03:12Z")
High prices solve high prices. If there is so much profit in the selling of Epi-pen type devices, another drug company will enter the market and attempt to take away market share from the existing suppliers, by lowering prices. Low prices solve low prices. If the price is artificially too low (maybe because of oversupply or because price controls have been put in place) Many producers will quit producing the product, because there is no profit. There will soon be shortages and the price will have to rise to incentivize producers to make more to meet demand. Clinton’s comments shows that she’s just an automaton that speaks in soundbites to the masses without truly understanding economics. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/13 "2016-09-02T15:07:58Z")
OK so reboot. ACA (Obamacare) has not controlled health care costs. In fact costs have gone up. Hillary claims she will control drug costs through legislation including penalties for price gouging. This would be the first time that health care reform would actually address costs directly. Is she serious or is it rhetoric? Can she get it through Congress? She failed miserably the first time she was in charge of health care reform. If it passes and is upheld, will this be the start of controlling the exorbitant prices in health care? If she gets comprehensive heath reform passed, will it be called Harpycare? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/14 "2016-09-02T15:10:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > OK so reboot. > > ACA (Obamacare) has not controlled health care costs. In fact costs have gone up. [citation needed] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/15 "2016-09-02T15:12:03Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > ACA (Obamacare) has not controlled health care costs. In fact costs have gone up. Hillary claims she will control drug costs through legislation including penalties for price gouging. This would be the first time that health care reform would actually address costs directly. > > Is she serious or is it rhetoric? I think the spearhead of Hillarycare is serious, at least about her intent. No one would argue that ACA is perfect and cannot be improved, and cost control is the most obvious thing that needs addressing in the health care system now that universal access is pretty well established. Results will depend on what residual strength the Republican oppositionists still have next term. > [@](#): > > If she gets comprehensive heath reform passed, will it be called Harpycare? A serious answer might be that it will be called expanded Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/16 "2016-09-02T15:15:35Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Her Royal Harpiness Your sexism is showing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/17 "2016-09-02T15:15:56Z")
One cannot expect health care costs not to go up. The question is, has the ACA reduced the rate of increase? I think so. Want to cut health care costs? Authorize Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Wonder which party opposes this. There may be some people who have lost coverage. Millions more have gained it. Uninsured rates have dropped to record lows. I don’t believe you can objectively call the ACA a failure. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/18 "2016-09-02T15:28:33Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But this is the opposite of what you said. Why can Mylan charge whatever it wants for the EPi-Pen? No competition and inelastic demand. Mylan has no competition precisely because of government regulation. Patents protect monopolies, and the generic alternatives to the Epi-Pen [are stuck in FDA limbo](http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/09/01/492235796/fda-fees-on-industry-havent-fixed-delays-in-generic-drug-approvals). In an entirely free market, Teva and other companies would have brought out the competition years and years ago, and prices would have likely plunged. Pharmaceuticals haven’t been an entirely free market at least since the introduction of chemical patents in the 1920s. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/19 "2016-09-02T15:34:23Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [citation needed] How many do you want? [One from an insurance company.](http://www.aetna.com/health-reform-connection/aetnas-vision/facts-about-costs.html) [One from a government agency.](http://www.chcf.org/publications/2016/05/health-care-costs-101) [One from a new agency.](http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/24/health-care-costs-for-families-top-25000--triple-2001.html) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/20 "2016-09-02T15:40:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So Hillary of the failed Clinton Health Care reform has said that she will go after drug companies that charge exorbitantly high prices that bear no relation with actual costs. Drug companies that do that may suffer legal consequences including fines. > > The failure of Obamacare is that it did not accomplish its stated purpose of lowering health care costs. Instead it was half-assed insurance reform that shows that the Pubs knew what they were talking about. Health care costs have gone UP since ACA passed. Poor people are being denied appropriate insurance because the insurance companies are pulling out of the exchanges in low income counties. The first death panels have been set up. OK maybe not the last one but the first two are accurate. > > So if Her Royal Harpiness will also go after health providers such as hospitals, labs and doctors that likewise price-gouge Americans I may actually have to vote for her. Question is does she have the balls to follow through when elected? You would be better served by voting for someone who would lengthen the protection time afforded by medical patents. _That_ is what causes the high cost of new drugs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772.md?page=2)