# 1 good thing about Hillary, she hates capitalism. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 2, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772 "2016-09-02T13:27:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/61 "2016-09-03T20:44:31Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Personally I’d rather have the government subsidise pure research and then when they hit gold they license it to private enterprise to manufacture with a license fee to go back to more pure research. Basic research on new drugs should not be something that’s purely privately funded and then subject to the worst of capitalism, eg government sanctioned monopolies. Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/62 "2016-09-04T04:57:39Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Personally I’d rather have the government subsidise pure research and then when they hit gold they license it to private enterprise to manufacture with a license fee to go back to more pure research. Basic research on new drugs should not be something that’s purely privately funded and then subject to the worst of capitalism, eg government sanctioned monopolies. Drugs are different from lots of things, in that the productization of them is a lot riskier and more expensive than that of say, a new semiconductor process. Look how many drugs fail FDA required studies. I believe that in Europe drug advertising is prohibited. Here marketing costs more than R&D. If we just limited marketing to factual information for doctors, we could cut costs rapidly. And no more stupid diseases treated by a given new drug, disease which might be rare before every hypochondriac watching cable news decides they must have it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/63 "2016-09-04T06:16:25Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Now that is really unfair. I was asked to provide cites that health care costs are rising. I did. Now the argument is yeah but not as much as before. So you’re saying I’m wrong that they’re still rising i.e. higher than last year? Well, let’s roll tape: > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > ACA (Obamacare) has not controlled health care costs. In fact costs have gone up. I basically gave you the benefit of the doubt here, that you knew what you were talking about. Since the fact that costs have continued to rise doesn’t contradict the fact that Obamacare IS controlling costs (i.e. keeping the increases affordable long-term, which is all that’s ever meant amongst the health care wonks), I figured that your ‘in fact costs have gone up’ was a slight verbal misstep, where you really meant that the _rate of increase_ was still going up. None of your cites showed that Obamacare had failed to control health care costs. Two of them did show that health care spending has increased under Obamacare, backing your second assertion but not your first. But I regarded the second as a misstep because it IS a misstep. You can back it up with a hundred cites, but it doesn’t matter because it still won’t show that Obamacare has failed to control health care costs, which is what matters. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/64 "2016-09-04T08:05:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I believe that in Europe drug advertising is prohibited. Here marketing costs more than R&D. Same in Australia, advertising a prescription drug is prohibited. I agree with this and it should be the case everywhere. If the drug is good Doctors will recommend it, if it’s not good it should fail and marketing budget should have nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/65 "2016-09-04T11:49:55Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > They pay less because we essentially subsidize their costs by allowing the drug companies to recoup their R&D costs here. Correct. There are people in this country who get very angry when we attempt to subsidize the cost of health care for poor Americans, but are very happy when we subsidize the cost of health care for the French. Of course, the EpiPen was developed years ago by a different company working with the US Government, the rights to which were purchased by Mylan for the express purpose of raising the price (for Americans) to unheard of levels. A $300 EpiPen doesn’t subsidize anything but dividends and bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![Poto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ab992/32.png) [@Poto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/66 "2016-09-04T15:37:22Z")
Have to make a distinction of price goiging single drug companies and the old giants and new biotechs who do all the inventing. The first effective Alzheimer drug will be very expensive and probably a monoclonal antibody. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/67 "2016-09-05T06:28:02Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Obamacare is not a \*complete \*failure–that is another [del]lie[/del] myth that the Republicans are spreading. > > [When Facts Meet Rhetoric: The Success of Obamacare](http://www.populist.com/22.15.retsinas.html) > > And on and on. Read the FACTS. Some random person’s blog is not FACTS. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/68 "2016-09-05T20:12:35Z")
For those asking when Obama ever said ACA would reduce health care costs, [this cit](http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/robert-e-moffit/obamacare-was-supposed-lower-health-care-costs-has-it)e seems to have a couple. Oh and he did say lower costs - not “Will rise at a lower rate than before which Dem apologists will twist into claiming costs have lowered.” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/69 "2016-09-05T20:20:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Well, let’s roll tape: > I basically gave you the benefit of the doubt here, that you knew what you were talking about. > > Since the fact that costs have continued to rise doesn’t contradict the fact that Obamacare IS controlling costs (i.e. keeping the increases affordable long-term, which is all that’s ever meant amongst the health care wonks), I figured that your ‘in fact costs have gone up’ was a slight verbal misstep, where you really meant that the _rate of increase_ was still going up. > > None of your cites showed that Obamacare had failed to control health care costs. Two of them did show that health care spending has increased under Obamacare, backing your second assertion but not your first. But I regarded the second as a misstep because it IS a misstep. You can back it up with a hundred cites, but it doesn’t matter because it still won’t show that Obamacare has failed to control health care costs, which is what matters. Pardon me but your side of the aisle is twisting what I said or reinterpreting it or something. I stated health care costs have not gone down - they haven’t. You’re side states that the rate of increase has declined and it has but your side goes further and implies my statement was wrong - it isn’t. Health care cost are NOT lower than they were pre-ACA. And Clinton is the only politician I know of that says they will attack the costs directly. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/70 "2016-09-06T00:13:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But this is the opposite of what you said. Why can Mylan charge whatever it wants for the EPi-Pen? No competition and inelastic demand. You’re failing your libertarian bona fides. Why is there no competition? Regulation. The pens themselves are patented, so no one can use them. And alternatives don’t get approved. A proper free market should mean that anyone could sell an Epi-Pen. It was invented in the 1970s, so it should be generic by now. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/71 "2016-09-06T00:19:49Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Pardon me but your side of the aisle is twisting what I said or reinterpreting it or something. I stated health care costs have not gone down - they haven’t. You’re side states that the rate of increase has declined and it has but your side goes further and implies my statement was wrong - it isn’t. Health care cost are NOT lower than they were pre-ACA. And Clinton is the only politician I know of that says they will attack the costs directly. You are repeatedly attempting to claim that the ACA caused the prices to go up. The actual evidence shows that it brought them down. They were just going up anyways, so bringing costs down still resulted in a net increase. You’re the one trying to connect correlation and causation, calling Obamacare a failure at reducing costs when it did actually do so. Because you ignore that the increase was caused by a completely different variable. You are the one twisting things by trying to blame Obamacare for the increase in costs. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/72 "2016-09-06T00:24:51Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Patents. > > Edit to add: and lobbyists controlling the regulators Which means you just contradicted yourself. It is due to patent law. This is a drug patent. It should expire in seven years like other drug patents. And the government ought to be able to pull eminent domain on drug patents and license them out if it turns out the medicine is greatly needed. If you price gouge, you risk losing your patent. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/73 "2016-09-06T01:02:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You are repeatedly attempting to claim that the ACA caused the prices to go up. The actual evidence shows that it brought them down. They were just going up anyways, so bringing costs down still resulted in a net increase. Where is your cite? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/74 "2016-09-06T23:38:27Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You are repeatedly attempting to claim that the ACA caused the prices to go up. The actual evidence shows that it brought them down. They were just going up anyways, so bringing costs down still resulted in a net increase. That’s just not logical. If they went down, the price would be less. You can claim that they have gone up less than they might have, or gone up more slowly than they had been before, but you can’t say costs went _down_. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772/75 "2016-09-06T23:54:31Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > That’s just not logical. If they went down, the price would be less. You can claim that they have gone up less than they might have, or gone up more slowly than they had been before, but you can’t say costs went _down_. I believe we cannot tell whether the price of drugs is comparatively more or less. We cannot brag about the Affordable Care Act, nor can we bitch about Obama Care, concerning price. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-good-thing-about-hillary-she-hates-capitalism/764772.md?page=3)