# 1 in 10 gay person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190 "2002-03-14T03:11:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Clueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/35a633/32.png) [@Clueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clueless)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/1 "2002-03-14T03:11:59Z")
Is it true that the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual is 10:1? I read this somewhere just recently and I’m curious to know if it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/2 "2002-03-14T03:14:17Z")
While I have no cites (I’ll let someone who knows their stuff get to that), I’ve read that this figure is actually highly exaggerated. From what I recall, it’s closer to 100:3 or so. Colin ---
**Author:** ![ricecake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@ricecake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricecake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/3 "2002-03-14T03:23:18Z")
I doubt its 100/3, I know about equal numbers of both, but that may be to the big city environment where people are more comfortable with the idea. Does it make any difference? ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/4 "2002-03-14T03:23:59Z")
Just for the record, though, if 1 in 10 people are gay, then the ratio of heterosexuals to homosexuals is 9:1, not 10:1. I’m sure somebody will come in with cites (or I will if I develop a few more free minutes) but I seem to recall the the more documents numbers are 3-6%. That is just from memory though so don’t put it in an essay or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/5 "2002-03-14T03:34:24Z")
The 10%-are-gay figure comes from a widely discredited Kinsey study dating back to the 1950’s. I’ve heard better estimates that suggest the real number is somewhere in the 2-5% range, but I don’t have any links to point you to. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Barking\_Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Spider)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/6 "2002-03-14T03:39:33Z")
I had always heard that only 2 percent of the population is homosexual. And I also never refer to homosexuals as “gay” since gay means happy or light hearted. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/7 "2002-03-14T03:46:07Z")
[This page](http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_AIM_Talk.html) at the Family Research Institute quotes lots of different research and explains Kinsey’s shortcomings. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/8 "2002-03-14T04:00:25Z")
It is true that the famous Kinsey statistic of “1 in 10” resulted from serious methodological flaws in Kinsey’s selection of participants, and thus it cannot be trusted. Yet while there is a fair bit of it, there is little or no particularly _reliable_ research on this question because of the significant tendency for many so-called “closeted” homosexuals to misreport their true sexuality. Since these polls rely on honest self-reporting and yet many homosexuals prefer to keep their sexual identity private, there is an unknown but presumably large error in ANY such results. In other words, we don’t **know** that the 10% figure is wrong, but only that the methods used to calculate it were improper and very unreliable. But until such time as an objective means of determining sexual preference becomes available and is employed in this research, no one will have reliable data on just what proportion of the population consists of homosexuals. The latest (unreliable and subjective) research has come up with a range of estimates running from less than 1% of the population to a high of 8% in populous cities; a very wide range indeed. While in my own subjective opinion estimates of greater than 8% seem unrealistically high, in the absence of objective data independent of self-reports, it is not _entirely_ out of the question. So the most accurate thing we can say about the percentage of homosexuals in society is: No one knows. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/9 "2002-03-14T04:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Barking Spider \* > \*\*And I also never refer to homosexuals as “gay” since gay means happy or light hearted. \*\* You must be one of those language-stifling, smug, pedantic prigs who refuses to apply the word “computer” to refer to the electronic device you use to post here because the word meant a **person** who performed calculations! The world would be better off with a great deal less of such hate-fueled pettifoggery, I’d imagine. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/10 "2002-03-14T04:18:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by don’t ask \* > \*\*This page at the Family Research Institute quotes lots of different research and explains Kinsey’s shortcomings. \*\* Oh, sure. Let’s trust one of the most ignorant anti-gay hate groups in the world to provide accurate information about homosexuality! And if you want to learn about the Holocaust, then a reliable source of information would naturally be the “I Love Hitler” site and other neo-Nazi web pages. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/11 "2002-03-14T04:30:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Barking Spider \* > \*\*I had always heard that only 2 percent of the population is homosexual. > And I also never refer to homosexuals as “gay” since gay means happy or light hearted. \*\* Cite, please, from a modern dictionary, using the restricted definition you propose? The English language is constantly adapting, and while your limited definition may have been an accurate description of the common usage 30 years ago, I don’t think it would still be accepted as accurate. For example, the [Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary](http://www1.oup.co.uk/elt/oald) gives definitions related to homosexuality as the primary meanings of the word: > [@](#): > > **gay** /ge/ _adj., noun_ > > • _adj._ > **1** (of people, especially men) sexually attracted to people of the same sex > > **SYN homosexual** : _gay men • I didn’t know he was gay. • Is she gay?_ > > **OPP straight** > > **2** [only before noun] connected with people who are gay: _a gay club / bar • the lesbian and gay community_ > > **3** ( **gayer, gayest** ) (_old-fashioned_) happy and full of fun: _gay laughter • She felt lighthearted and gay._ > > **4** (_old-fashioned_) brightly coloured: _The garden was gay with red geraniums._ —see also **gaiety, gaily** > > **IDM with gay abandon** without thinking about the results or effects of a particular action > > • _noun_ a person who is **homosexual,** especially a man So, I suppose if you’re content to describe yourself as “old-fashioned” you can use the word “gay” with a restricted meaning, but I wouldn’t get your knickers in a twist if other people choose to use it in the more modern sense. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![struct](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@struct](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/struct)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/12 "2002-03-14T05:50:15Z")
It’s a tricky issue, because one can wreak all sorts of havoc with the numbers by narrowing or widening ones definition of what is and is not homosexual. A narrow definition would be someone who has never had a heterosexual experience and is currently sexually active. A broad definition would be anyone who has ever been attracted in any way to someone of the same sex. The former extreme eliminates many from the count who should probably be included, such as the common case of those who due to societal pressures tried to force themselves to be hetero but later became true to their homo nature, or bisexuals who only date outside their sex a low percentage of the time. The latter extreme is probably too inclusive, since pretty much everyone would fall under that umbrella (whether they admit it or not). As Mark Twain aptly put it, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” The issue of who’s gay and who’s not is also, IMHO, a moot issue right up there with the question of who belongs to what minority. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/13 "2002-03-14T06:47:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ambushed \* > \*\* > > You must be one of those language-stifling, smug, pedantic prigs who refuses to apply the word “computer” to refer to the electronic device you use to post here because the word meant a **person** who performed calculations! > > The world would be better off with a great deal less of such hate-fueled pettifoggery, I’d imagine. \*\* If you want to accuse someone of priggishness or hatefulness, you will do so in the BBQ Pit but not in General Questions. Don’t make this mistake again. Since there doesn’t appear to be consensus on the question, I’ll move this thread to Great Debates. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![im\_a\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/898d66/32.png) [@im\_a\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/im_a_loser)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/14 "2002-03-14T07:27:38Z")
The whole idea behind the one in ten figure is a flawed interpretation of kinsey’s study. Before you can say _x_ amount of people are _y_, you have to define _y_ - that is do you mean exclusively gay? Here are excerpts from the actual study. > [@](#): > > "Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual… Only the human mind invents categories and tries to force facts into pigeonholes. The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects…(Kinsey et al, 1948:639) … > “In regard to sexual behavior, it has been possible to maintain this dichotomy only by placing all persons who are exclusively heterosexual in a heterosexual category and all persons who have any amount of experience with their own sex, even including those with the slightest experience, in a homosexual category… The attempt to maintain a simple dichotomy on these matters exposes the traditional biases which are likely to enter whenever the heterosexual or homosexual classification of an individual is involved” (Kinsey et al, 1953:468-469) > > While emphasizing the continuity of gradations between exclusively homosexual and exclusively heterosexual histories, Kinsey proposed his heterosexual-homosexual rating scale, based on both overt and psychological experiences (Kinsey et al, 1948:638-41): > > 1. Exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual > 2. Predominantly heterosexual, only incidental homosexual > 3. Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual > 4. Equally heterosexual and homosexual > 5. Predominantly homosexual but more than incidentally heterosexual > 6. Predominantly homosexual, but incidentally heterosexual > 7. Exclusively homosexual. … > "10 per cent of the males are more or less exclusively homosexual (i.e., rate 5 or 6) for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55. This is one male in ten in the white population. > > "8 per cent of the males are exclusively homosexual (i.e. rate a 6) for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55. This is one male in every 13. > > “4 per cent of the white males are exclusively homosexual throughout their lives, after the onset of adolescence.” [source](http://www.ssmu.mcgill.ca/queer/info/kinsey.html) ---
**Author:** ![baltotop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@baltotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baltotop)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/15 "2002-03-14T08:11:24Z")
In my opinion , i believe that the percentage is more than 10%, because of all the studies that u administer not that many gay ppl are out and/or comfortable with discussing it with the world at large…these studies include a small fraction of the gay population that it cant possible be correct. If we weren’t worried about all the homophobic ppl ☹ in the world then we might all stand up a take a head count. Until then we will never (in my opinion) get an accurate figure. There are’nt that many ppl out there that are either fully gay or straight so we need a national count of all the ppl in the rainbow of life, then we will be able to get an accurate percentage… I hope that this comment was helpful and hope there are others out there who feel the same way… ttfn baltotop:) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/16 "2002-03-14T14:04:37Z")
this is not a post. a post is a thing somewhat like a pole that sticks up out of the ground. signs are often put on it. i refuse to call this a post. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grither](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grither/32/425_2.png) [@Grither](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grither)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/17 "2002-03-14T14:10:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ambushed \* > **And if you want to learn about the Holocaust, then a reliable source of information would naturally be the “I Love Hitler” site and other neo-Nazi web pages.** Paging Dr. Godwin… [http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Godwin’s-Law.html](http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/Godwin's-Law.html) _fixed link - **DrMatrix** _ ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/18 "2002-03-14T15:39:49Z")
The recent (1999-2001) national survey of sexual attitudes in Britain suggests a figure of 1 in 19 men, 1 in 20 women. A fair amount of thought went into the methodology for this survey, so I’m inclined to regard it as pretty reliable (for the UK anyway). A discussion of the results can be found [here](http://society.guardian.co.uk/publichealth/story/0,11098,609536,00.html). I understand a more complete analysis is available through _The Lancet_’s website, but only to paying subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/19 "2002-03-14T16:48:18Z")
Here is a link to a website that discusses the results of several studies: www.all[here](http://www.allaboutsex.com/KidsSpeakOut_Display.cfm?INDEX=5098) It states the number in the US is probably 2-3%. As Mr Wright points out it is probably higher in in the UK. As for the assertion that surveys are inaccurate because the respondents do not want to be subjected to adverse reaction, all surveys done by responsible groups are totally anonymous and the results can not be traced back to the respondents. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190/20 "2002-03-14T16:58:47Z")
The correct link this time: [http://www.allaboutsex.org/KidsSpeakOut\_Display.cfm?INDEX=5098](http://www.allaboutsex.org/KidsSpeakOut_Display.cfm?INDEX=5098) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-10-gay-person/98190.md?page=2)