[QUOTE=Kenm]
so, anyone with half a brain and not knowing the Earth circles the sun should not be allowed to vote.
[/QUOTE]
Says who? And why? If we’re going to revoke the right to vote from 25% of our population, you need a better reason than, “Because I said so.” Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
C’mon…I seriously doubt that 1 in 4 Americans truly believe the sun revolves around the Earth. I have several reasons to believe this number is phony:
[ul]
[li] The poll question reads “Does the Earth go around the sun, or does the sun go around the Earth?” There’s enough wiggle room in “goes around” to justify either or both interpretations, as buddy431 notes.[/li][li]Everyday language reinforces the idea that the Sun is in motion (the sun “rises” in the morning, we watch it “move across the sky”, it “goes down” in the evening), so I can believe some people answered the question without really thinking. I guarantee you that if this question used the specific word “revolve”, a lot of these folks would answer correctly; thus, the poll reveals more about carelessness than ignorance.[/li][li]Some people just like fucking with pollsters. I guarantee you not everyone on “Jaywalking” or sucked into Jimmy Kimmel’s latest quiz is really that dumb; they just know how to play along. If some pollster asked me this question, my first thought would be “this question isn’t seriously asking an astronomical question, he/she wants to prove some social point.” My answer then would be based more on whether I agreed/disagreed with the point they were trying to prove rather than strict agreement with scientific fact. Welcome to postmodern polling.[/li][/ul]
I suspect if the poll question were something irrefutable–like “Is this sentence in English?” or “Does 2+2=4?”–you would still get about 10-15% who would answer “no” just for reasons analogous to the ones above.
Er… it’s also a cite.
Why do you have a difficult time believing it?
The Moon goes around the earth in both models, so I can believe it. The difference would be the movement of the Sun, which would be minor in the amount of time needed for a lunar trip. A bigger problem would be that I doubt that Ptolemy got the mass of the sun right.
Going to Mars might be a bit trickier.
If a person of voting age doesn’t know that Earth orbits the sun, colossally stupid would be a compliment.
Any voter-registration form should include the statement “I am not colossally stupid because I know the Earth goes around the sun,” next to a check box marked True. No check box marked False is required.
If the box is checked, the “elite” would know the erstwhile voter is colossally stupid and doesn’t have a clue as to any issue or candidate. The colossally stupid would lose the right to vote until the next election.
Since the colossally stupid would never understand why they couldn’t vote, the same question could be asked for the next millennium each time the colossally stupid showed up.
No extraordinary evidence is required.
This was part of a nine question survey. I think it would,be obvious from other answers if this were happening - for instance getting all wrong.
I meant more in the sense that the bottom 25% of people are likely pretty slow by the standards of the top half. Functionally retarded was hyperbole, but there are some damned unintelligent people out there, and if someone reads at say… a 6th grade level, pondering the mechanics of the solar system is something that they probably just don’t do, for various reasons.
Well said. New Scientist devoted the issue of Oct29-Nov04, 2011 to the cover story “Unscientific America”, addressing the problem of scientific ignorance in the general population, specifically in the context of what needs to be done to help the general public and thus policymakers understand the risks and challenges of climate change instead of attacking the science. That problem unfortunately extends to other areas like evolution and crackpot beliefs in creationism which threaten to pollute the educational system, and the perceived dangers of nuclear power which has important policy implications.
Equally critical is the fact that the general contempt for science undermines essential public funding for research, which ultimately affects all progress. It’s hard to think of anything more important than that, so yes, scientific ignorance matters.
I agree, though the question of intelligence is not the same as the basic common sense to at least accept what qualified scientists are saying in policy-contentious areas. It’s great to have a solid grounding in science, and it’s fine and realistic to not understand it but have the basic sense to be able to distinguish reliable sources of information from junk. The problem arises when people for some reason think that blogs are on the same level as national and international scientific institutions, or that their own uninformed opinions carry the same weight as conclusive scientific research.
What does it mean to say “the sun does not go around the Earth but, rather, it is the other way around”?
Presumably, we can come up with some translation of this into technical physics which justifies the claim (e.g., “Well, if we were to consider the average location of the two bodies, averaged by mass, for some reason…”). But why should we bless this particular interpretation of the ordinary language? [For that matter, I imagine, of the many people smugly proud that they say “The Earth goes around the sun rather than the other way around”, a not insignificant number actually could not explain this in any further conceptual detail; it’s simply a rotely memorized shibboleth for them.]
The sun does go around the Earth, in a very familiar sense. That is not false. There are other senses of perhaps far greater interest to the astrophysicist, but from the ordinary person’s day-to-day [literally!] perspective, the sense in which the sun goes around the Earth is also extremely important.
But, for that reason, does not need to be taught; the other does.
Er, I meant to say “weighted by mass”. Then I decided to reword things more drastically. Then I decided to scrap this parenthetical altogether. Then I lost the edit window.
Is it important merely that people be taught to say “The Earth goes around the sun, and not the other way around”? Or is it important that people be taught what the empirical content of this claim is? Because I’m not even sure I myself can produce that empirical content. Perhaps I could if I sat down and thought about things a bit, but it’s certainly not at my ready fingertips. I pass the superficial test with aplomb, but not so easily the significant one.
Yet I consider myself a reasonably well-educated fellow, certainly educated enough to get around in life without people worrying about me. Perhaps this is a Holmesian defect on my own part, but what’s the harm in it?
Perhaps it was just a typo. If so, it means that 1 out of 4 Americans are very knowledgeable about Dungeons & Dragons, because the Sun does go around Oerth. 
I agree. I think it’s far more likely that this question, and others like it, are answered wrong because of a comprehension issue, rather than actually not knowing the truth of the substance. If this, and the reasons you stated, were accounted for in the poll, I’m confident that the percentage would be far lower than 26%.
I know a few people who get flustered over simple things, not because they are dumb necessarily, they just have high anxiety or something of the like. These are the type of people I imagine would mistakenly answer the question wrong. However, if they really thought about it, they would be able to describe the layout of the solar system at least from the Sun-Mars, and understand that it is heliocentric.
Anyone who can make the kind of argument you are making knows the answer, and is not of concern. If they know the concept of center of mass they certainly know the answer. Anyone who can use “frame of reference” in a sentence knows the answer. Those who don’t see that the sun apparently goes around the earth - like the ancients did - and that is good enough for them,
They are exactly the ones who will say climate change is a hoax because it is snowing, and that this pill must be good because a guy on TV said he got better from taking it.
Everybody has seen pictures of the solar system. If a person cannot relate the place he is standing to the Earth in that picture, we have a problem.
You’re not nearly as clever as you think you are. This is GD, not MPSIMS. Even if we go along with your cutesy argument here, you have still failed to prove that someone who is unaware of certain facts about the solar system would not understand why they weren’t being allowed to vote.