# 1 in every 25 dads might actually be the mail man?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 11, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650 "2005-08-11T22:35:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/1 "2005-08-11T22:35:20Z")
[So says a study.](http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=healthNews&storyID=2005-08-11T124742Z_01_N11553710_RTRIDST_0_HEALTH-PATERNITY-DISCREPANCY-DC.XML) Something tells me that paternity tests are about to start spiking even more… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/2 "2005-08-11T22:44:13Z")
_The investigation also showed that becoming pregnant at a younger age, low socioeconomic status, and being in a long-term relationship rather than being married seem to be linked to greater likelihood of paternal discrepancy._ Duh. There are going to be a lot of medicos re-examining their ethics about this over the next few years. Such information rarely, if ever, needs to be released to the people involved, much less anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/3 "2005-08-11T22:46:30Z")
I thought traditionally it was the milkman. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/4 "2005-08-11T22:46:31Z")
Ya know I’ve pretty much decided my mom was not entirely related to the rest of her sibs. She’s the oldest of 11, the only blond blue eyed among a bunch of swarthy eastern european types, and I believe her folks got married cause they had to. Perhaps grandma had another bf at the time and married the wrong one, hmm? The one time I suggested the possibility to her, ma’s reaction was definately not in the spirit of fighting ignorance in which I brought it up. We don’t speak anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/5 "2005-08-11T22:52:22Z")
> [@honeydewgrrl](#): > > [So says a study.](http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=healthNews&storyID=2005-08-11T124742Z_01_N11553710_RTRIDST_0_HEALTH-PATERNITY-DISCREPANCY-DC.XML) > > Something tells me that paternity tests are about to start spiking even more… Gives a sly new meaning to “the morning post.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/6 "2005-08-11T22:57:16Z")
> [@honeydewgrrl](#): > > Something tells me that paternity tests are about to start spiking even more… Forget OTC pregnancy test. I call _dibs_ on self administered OTC home paternity tests. I’ll make a fortune! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/7 "2005-08-12T00:59:25Z")
If the postman gets laid that often, I’m in the wrong line of work! ---
**Author:** ![KRC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/45deac/32.png) [@KRC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KRC)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/8 "2005-08-12T04:48:34Z")
So that’s why the mail is so slow–the postman’s getting laid at every other stop. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/9 "2005-08-12T06:06:14Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There are going to be a lot of medicos re-examining their ethics about this over the next few years. Such information rarely, if ever, needs to be released to the people involved, much less anybody else. Why? ---
**Author:** ![gfloyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d2c977/32.png) [@gfloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gfloyd)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/10 "2005-08-12T07:22:34Z")
Looking at me you question whether I’m related to one of my parents, but it’s not my dad. If I looked as little like my father as I do my mother, I would question my parentage. I long ago came to the conculsion that there is a lot more of everything than people would assume. Affairs, bastard children, broken and reforged homes, high school drop outs, you name it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/11 "2005-08-12T08:02:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There are going to be a lot of medicos re-examining their ethics about this over the next few years. Such information rarely, if ever, needs to be released to the people involved, much less anybody else. I think as genetic screenings for inheritable diseases increases, it will be a question doctors, and we as a society have to deal with. Whose rights supersede whose? Does the kid have a right to know? The father? Will feminist groups argue that the woman’s right to privacy trumps everybody? What if the kid has an inheritable genetic predisposition to something that he had to have received from his genetic father, and cannot have received from the guy he thinks is his father? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/12 "2005-08-12T10:44:22Z")
As we use DNA more and more, we’re learning that it _isn’t_ always reliable. There was a case where, during paternity testing, it was found that a woman _could NOT_ be the mother of her own children. Nevermind there were witnesses that had been present at every birth to testify these children had come out of her body, according to DNA she was not their mother. The state was on the verge of taking her children away from her permanently and possibly charging her with kidnapping. Turns out she was a natural chimera - someone whose body had _two_ different genomes. One showed up in blood tests and cheek swabs, another was manifested in her reproductive organs. She _was_ their mother… and genetically also their “aunt” at the same time. (In such a situation, although the genetic relationship looks more distant than mother and child, it can still be determined the two individuals are related to some degree) At the end of the show I saw on this, the comment of the judge involved was “How often does this happen? How many true parents, particularly fathers, have been denied access to their children because of these tests and this condition?” Nobody knows. It’s _assumed_ to be rare, but no one has ever looked for this in a systematic manner. So it’s quite possible at least a few of the “not-fathers” _really are_ the true fathers of those children. It’s also possible that, if tested, some of the mothers might give odd results, too. Which is yet another reason to take these studies with a very large grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/13 "2005-08-12T10:53:42Z")
All in all, a lot more work needs to be done in this area. DNA testing is perhaps the second shot (after the Green Revolution) in the war (here the analogy breaks down) making biology the premiere science on this young century. (I just read where people are doing DNA work on wine grapes to determine their linage.) DNA testing is changing everything. And nobody is noticing. (Or not, I am drunk.) ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/14 "2005-08-12T14:29:34Z")
My hunch is that we’ll see this ratio grow a bit, even after accounting for the testing flaws. Testing and the technology will improve and increase in frequency, and I think it will illustrate that the situation is even more common than we think. As a lesbian, I can only imagine the motives of a woman to outright lie or stick her proverbial fingers in her ears and say “lalalalala!” when considering the potential paternity of a child that she carries. Are the pressures and anxieties at the possibility of not having a “father” around for her children really strong enough to overcome her social conditioning? Are they really strong enough to turn her into a manipulative “my offspring and I must survive, no matter what it takes” machine? Could it be a deep enough of a response to be “instinctual”? Or perhaps something like Peripartum Manipulation Syndrome? ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/15 "2005-08-12T14:47:22Z")
I think that wayyy more of human behavior than anyone would like to think is governed by the caveman within, no matter how much rationality and civilization we try to dress it up in. Women are, generally speaking, genetically programmed to want the best physical specimen possible to father their children. They are also prgrammed to want the best provider possible to ensure those children survive. Sometimes, those two requirements are mutually exclusive, especially in the younger, lower socio-economic groups mentioned by the study. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/16 "2005-08-12T15:07:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If the postman gets laid that often, I’m in the wrong line of work! Well, you know what they say…[the postman always rings twice](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038854/). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/17 "2005-08-12T15:54:41Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > I thought traditionally it was the milkman. 🙂 Nowadays, it’s probably the UPS driver. It could be an urban legend, but I had a high school science teacher tell my class that they stopped having students make charts of their family bloodtypes because too many uncomfortable questions came up. Students would ask how they ended up with some impossible type, and the teacher would say “Well…sometimes that happens.” ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/18 "2005-08-12T15:57:26Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As we use DNA more and more, we’re learning that it _isn’t_ always reliable. After **Broomstick** ’s very interesting post (read it all above) I did a search for more info about this and found an interesting [pdf](http://www.ashi-hla.org/publicationfiles/ASHI_Quarterly/28_4_2004/Pat_Testing.pdf) but didn’t find a cite for any maternal testing problems or natural chimera which would be good if anyone else can come up with a cite. ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/19 "2005-08-12T16:43:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As we use DNA more and more, we’re learning that it _isn’t_ always reliable. > > There was a case where, during paternity testing, it was found that a woman _could NOT_ be the mother of her own children. Nevermind there were witnesses that had been present at every birth to testify these children had come out of her body, according to DNA she was not their mother. The state was on the verge of taking her children away from her permanently and possibly charging her with kidnapping. > > Turns out she was a natural chimera - someone whose body had _two_ different genomes. One showed up in blood tests and cheek swabs, another was manifested in her reproductive organs. She _was_ their mother… and genetically also their “aunt” at the same time. (In such a situation, although the genetic relationship looks more distant than mother and child, it can still be determined the two individuals are related to some degree) > > At the end of the show I saw on this, the comment of the judge involved was “How often does this happen? How many true parents, particularly fathers, have been denied access to their children because of these tests and this condition?” Nobody knows. It’s _assumed_ to be rare, but no one has ever looked for this in a systematic manner. > > So it’s quite possible at least a few of the “not-fathers” _really are_ the true fathers of those children. It’s also possible that, if tested, some of the mothers might give odd results, too. > > Which is yet another reason to take these studies with a very large grain of salt. Do you by any chance have a cite for this? It’s not that I’m doubting you; I just think the article would be an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650/20 "2005-08-12T17:34:59Z")
> [@monica](#): > > Do you by any chance have a cite for this? It’s not that I’m doubting you; I just think the article would be an interesting read. I most certainly _was_ doubting this when I first heard about it. I did look up the reference though. I forget what journal it was in. I’ll see if can find it. Even if I do, it’s probably not accessable w/o some sort of hefty fee unless you’re looking from a university account or something. brb… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-in-every-25-dads-might-actually-be-the-mail-man/316650.md?page=2)