# \-1 to -10 Hit Points(the De'endee Mafia Forbidden Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 8, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335 "2011-07-08T17:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/21 "2011-07-14T04:48:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Why the sudden popularity in vote-based hammer mechanisms? It gives an excuse for players not to participate. > > **Zeriel** , can you define what you mean by “magic bag”, because the way you’re using it doesn’t seem to match how I’d use it. For me, a magic bag is a promise of an unknown power or information, to be revealed in the future. For example, “I saw **Cecil** do something last Night; I’ll tell you after the lynch”. My typical usage of it is somewhat more broad–I use “magic bag” to be ANY hints of information that aren’t immediately revealed. “I am neither vanilla nor scum” from you last game was a magic bag, IMHO. No express promise of revelation is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/22 "2011-07-14T16:23:27Z")
I know how I’ll fix the voting confusion. I’ll let them know after night falls. The day progresses with everyone under the same misconception, so that’ll be plenty fair. Then they’ll have something to chat about during night, too. I wish I had phrased it better to begin with, though. Mahaloth and I were clear about the rule on the setup thread, and Mahaloth was clear in his refinement of it in-thread, it just didn’t get written very well to begin with. Lesson learned. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/23 "2011-07-14T23:01:28Z")
I think you were clear enough, Astral, just a different mechanism was bound to confuse people a bit. And scum are probably trying to add to the confusion to stop Town powers from levelling up. It’s an interesting idea. Hard to predict what effect it will have. What kind of effects were you hoping for when you introduced it? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/24 "2011-07-14T23:42:49Z")
Basically, the same mafia design with new color will eventually get boring. We wanted to try some new stuff out. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/25 "2011-07-15T00:23:19Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > It’s an interesting idea. Hard to predict what effect it will have. What kind of effects were you hoping for when you introduced it? My idea, actually(the multi-vote, that is). I expected more people to place two votes, though perhaps not on the same person. I think toMorrow, more people will vote two times. I think in the end game, people will double vote for the same person, though. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/26 "2011-07-15T17:51:13Z")
The two votes, potentially on the same player, is a nice idea. It avoids the problem of potentially being forced to vote for a townie. I think the attaching the hammer mechanism to it reduces its effectiveness. I’ve considered in the past mechanisms like xp used to change the game state. The problem is they make the game less like mafia and more like a mini role-playing game. That’s not a bad thing, but too much and it’s no longer mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/27 "2011-07-15T18:44:04Z")
I do love any alternate voting system in mafia, basically. For much the same reasons that I like agitating for them in real life 😉 As for what makes a game Mafia, honestly, I think it’s the idea of limited information and fixed teams/alliances. Malazan didn’t feel like mafia because it wasn’t about being a detective, it was about picking a team you could trust. Adding XP to the game seems fine because at the core it’s still about figuring out things before your opposite numbers do. ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/28 "2011-07-15T20:45:04Z")
Zerial, you slutty bitch, how are ya? KidV here. Come play in my game on the 'Raffe! Rest of ya’ll are invited as well, I’m looking for two more players. Astral, may I pimp my game in your game thread? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/29 "2011-07-18T13:54:52Z")
Oh for FSM’s sake. **LightFoot** outed emself as Seer (cop). I understand eir desire to push their Mafia sk11lz, but read the fragging strategy guides! As I understand it, a cop generally shouldn’t reveal themselves until one of the following: - They find a Scum - They find “enough” Townies, subject to the number of players and game structure. - They fear the Scum are going to kill them next. There’s also a small chance LightFoot is false claiming, and the real Seer is hiding for a few Days to collect investigations. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/30 "2011-07-18T14:30:08Z")
You know, I don’t have a problem with the claim so much as with him not sharing his results. That’s foolish beyond belief. When will town learn that hiding information hurts town 99 times out of 100? SHARE WHAT YOU KNOW! It’s the only weapon town has to win against the scum. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/31 "2011-07-18T14:40:30Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > You know, I don’t have a problem with the claim so much as with him not sharing his results. That’s foolish beyond belief. > > When will town learn that hiding information hurts town 99 times out of 100? SHARE WHAT YOU KNOW! It’s the only weapon town has to win against the scum. Hear, hear. The only time hiding information MIGHT help is when magic bagging doesn’t make you a scum target–that is, it’s only even possible for it to be a good strategy to “partially claim but hide info” if there is already a confirmed pool and no doctor extant. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/32 "2011-07-19T16:11:48Z")
I need two subs. Any takers? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/33 "2011-07-19T21:34:20Z")
I love keeping information from the Town. Sometimes it is the best thing to do. Or at the very least, the timing of revealing information can be used to good effect. In a recent game I saw an investigator wait until near end of day (24-36 hours) to reveal that someone was lying scum. I very much approved of this move as it maintained discussion for the Day but still got the necessary information out. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/34 "2011-07-19T22:42:50Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I need two subs. Any takers? I will! ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/35 "2011-07-19T23:39:48Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I love keeping information from the Town. Sometimes it is the best thing to do. Or at the very least, the timing of revealing information can be used to good effect. In a recent game I saw an investigator wait until near end of day (24-36 hours) to reveal that someone was lying scum. I very much approved of this move as it maintained discussion for the Day but still got the necessary information out. That isn’t the same thing and you know it. You are just being contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/36 "2011-07-19T23:57:27Z")
Still need one sub. Somebody, anybody, come play in my game! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/37 "2011-07-20T23:41:06Z")
If still looking for a sub, I’ll do it. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/38 "2011-07-22T13:24:35Z")
Can I have spoilers please? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/39 "2011-07-29T00:01:43Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Oh for FSM’s sake. **LightFoot** outed emself as Seer (cop). I understand eir desire to push their Mafia sk11lz, but read the fragging strategy guides! > > As I understand it, a cop generally shouldn’t reveal themselves until one of the following: > > - They find a Scum > - They find “enough” Townies, subject to the number of players and game structure. > - They fear the Scum are going to kill them next. > > There’s also a small chance LightFoot is false claiming, and the real Seer is hiding for a few Days to collect investigations. Lightfoot claimed because he’s in the game over on Idlemafia where it was right for the cop to claim. That is an open game with no scum roleblocker, and a known doc who could protect the cop. Claiming ensured that the doc protected the right person and that the vig didn’t accidentally hit the wrong person. I think Lightfoot just didn’t understand the difference, or didn’t think about the roleblocker. I get confused about open and closed games. Most games are closed? The current game on Idlemafia is open, where the roles are known. Or do I have it backwards? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335/40 "2011-07-29T00:21:51Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I get confused about open and closed games. Most games are closed? The current game on Idlemafia is open, where the roles are known. Or do I have it backwards? Right. This game is closed, the roles are secret. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-to-10-hit-points-the-deendee-mafia-forbidden-thread/588335.md?page=3)