# 1 Trump voters thoughts **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 13, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727 "2016-11-13T00:09:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/101 "2016-11-17T01:48:12Z")
Originally Posted by cmosdes View Post Fact: Hillary used a private email server for government emails. . Correct Quote: Originally Posted by cmosdes View Post Then when the government asked for the server she gave up only those things she wanted them to see. . Incorrect. This is your opinion. Unless you are claiming she gave over every piece of email on the server, it isn’t just opinion. Further, you are missing the point. I don’t wish to start a debate about the email server. You people keep wondering why people voted for Trump, and when given facts you argue semantics which are pointless. It is a fact she kept a private email server that should have been under government control. And here you are arguing whether she responded with every email or just some and nitpicking the details. THIS is why she lost. She did something that smacks of being underhanded and wanting to hide something and the best anyone could do to defend that is to say, “Colin Powell did it” or “They never found anything wrong in the emails she let them have.” Quote: Originally Posted by cmosdes View Post Fact: After leaving the White House, Hillary moved to the state she always talked about wanting to be a part of, to be living in… Yes, she did move to New York. Quote: Originally Posted by cmosdes View Post And, by gum, that state just happened to have a ripe-for-the-picking Senate seat opening. Huh. Imagine the luck. And it’s your OPINION that moving to become a senator was a TERRIBLE thing. Answer: I never said it was a terrible thing. It is a fact she moved there. Most people would conclude that was for political aspirations. You might over look that, but and just say, “Well, that is just your opinion” and tell anyone that concludes she moved there for political gain they are just guessing, but that won’t sway anyone to think better of her. Face the fact she did it for political gain, address it, and move on. Again, this all leads to the perception of what Hillary represents. You can ignore it, tell people they are stupid or whatever for feeling that she was overly politically motivated, or you can address it and get past it. Quote: Originally Posted by cmosdes View Post Fact: Hillary voted for the Iraq war. Yes, she did vote for this at the request of a Republican president, along with many other Republican senators. Obama didn’t. I want my leader to make decisions that are the right ones. It was the intent of the founding fathers that our president not be pressured by the urgency of the moment. You really want someone that just goes with what is popular? Again, instead of trying to explain why this stuff makes it okay for you, realize why it makes Hillary look like a bad choice for others. Trump supports just may want someone that doesn’t give a fuck what everyone else is pressuring for. Quote: Originally Posted by cmosdes View Post It was a popular thing to do. She had access to all the information necessary to see what a sham that was, but went with what would be popular. . It’s your OPINION that she did this only because it was popular. And no, it is clear that few people had access to all the information necessary, and in fact, much of the information given was simply made up crappola. (Yellowcake, weapons of mass destruction etc.) Answer: Again, you are claiming it was okay for her to vote for something because it was popular. You think that is a hallmark of a good president? It would behoove you to discern the difference between FACT and OPINION, as you have freely mixed the two of these up in your examples Answer: I fully know the difference. The facts, as I expressed them, are facts. What is more, you haven’t addressed what was the main point. How is Trump a liar, charlatan and con man? FACTS, please. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/102 "2016-11-17T01:59:28Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > What is more, you haven’t addressed what was the main point. How is Trump a liar, charlatan and con man? FACTS, please. [Politifact](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/103 "2016-11-17T02:06:36Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > She did it because she did not want her emails to be accessible to prying eyes that could use them against her politically. She is cautious and worried about her private communications to a fault, but the private server ending up doing more harm than good. Emails still leaked, mostly showing that the people working for her came across mostly well, but the potential of deleted emails that will never see the light of day allow the demagogues of this world to fill the blanks with whatever horrors they can think up, adding fuel to the right wing flames that she is an evil actor in this world. It’s not true, but truth does not matter, they see a void and fill it with their own hatred. Belief becomes reality. > > For the record, everyone bitching about her email communications, since when did it become the modern standard that nothing is allowed to be said in confidence? Is all communication made by a public official supposed to be part of a public record? George Washington destroyed many of his letters, was he an incalculably corrupt politician that warrants being chastised for hiding his true beliefs and communications and ideas and did not pull a John Adams and preserve far more letters for posterity? > > This was a SHIT complaint, and was always a shit standard. Normalizing this standard is not a good for the nation. And it was not a real issue, it said nothing about policy and what Clinton wanted to do, the most you could say is that it highlighted an attribute of Clinton where she was too cloistered and worried about her “secrets” getting out and blown out of proportions. Turns out she was right about it, the most insignificant nothings of email scandal were blown up to high heavens. Um… yeah. She did it because she wanted privacy. To answer your question, no, as a public employee she is subject to oversight in her emails related to her being secretary of state. I _really_ don’t want Tump to be able to hide his dealings as President from any scrutiny. Do you? So having a private email server for a public jobs stinks. Whether anything was wrong or not, it doesn’t matter. It looks bad. > [@Salvor](#): > > She had ambitions for the white house and wanted to use her connections in politics and Bill Clinton as a spring board. I’m sorry, what is the problem here? You don’t like dynasties, fine, but I expect the SAME vitriole shitting on Any relatives of Kennedy that ever ran for office, and any Bushes. John Quincy Adams? Eff him. Oh and he used his political fame to edge his way into congress later too? That jerk. WHAT an opportunist, using his last days to fight against slavery as an abolitionist. Oh but right, he used his connections in politics to get ahead. SO WHAT. There are other issues to be worried about, THIS is not one of them. The problem is that she did all this for herself. Not as a way to represent the people she has always been a part of or worked with or came to really know, but as a purely self centered advancement of her own career. It shows her character directly. If you can’t see that, you clearly will NEVER understand why people don’t like her and would have leaned towards Trump. Let me be clear. I’m not asking you to defend this or to argue for or against it. I’m telling you what people see that clearly you aren’t seeing. Maybe this isn’t a big deal to you, but to some of us, having someone from a very, very different part of the world come in and take over just smacks of personal aspiration. > [@Salvor](#): > > I don’t know if Hillary was genuinely convinced over the Iraq war being justifiable, but a LOT of democrats voted for it, and a LOT of them did it for political reasons. She was against gay marriage before she was for it, and btw, so was Obama, against gay marriage before he was for it. Question. Do you think Obama was EVER Really against gay marriage? Did he LIE when he said he thought it should be between a man and a woman? I did, and did I give him shit for it? NO, because I’m not a child, I understand that people fudge the truth and lie in the service of a perceived greater good, like not dying on that hill that could be better fought later and sacrificing other goods that needed more pressing attention. Politicians and human beings do this all the time, the idea that people need to stop all of this is absurd. Lincoln did FAR worse when trying to get the 14th amendment passed, coercing congressmen to vote his way, you think everything was on the up and up? Do you care? When Jefferson went along with the Louisiana purchase it was not clear it was constitutional, do you care? You want a precious and PURE ideology where nothing is ever fudged? THAT is a dystopian way to think and feel, it ripped the guts out of humanity and judgement and is NOT something to be respected. It’s a FOOL way to live a life, and a fools expectations of other people. Here you go again. Insulting, calling people foolish and going down a rabbit hole of “well, this politician did this, and that politician did that” when Trump supporters are TIRED of politicians doing this and that. Saying other politicaions did it just feeds the notion that we need something other than a politician in office. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY HILLARY LOST. Why is this concept so fucking hard for you to get? No, I don’t want a pure of heart politician. I want a politician that won’t send thousands to die in a needless war, regardless of what “everyone” else is doing. All this other rhetoric does nothing to address the original thought. NOTHING. And until you can see that, you’ll never convince anyone Hillary was the better choice. > [@Salvor](#): > > I don’t believe Trump ever believed Obama was not a US citizen, I think he went along with the fiction that he was not to rile up a bunch of gullible rubes. He is a former Birther, but not because he believed, because he was conning the true believers into supporting him. This time he latched onto an issue with more legs, an aversion to illegal immigrants. Of course this was not enough for a personal purge of any illegals working for his properties, nor was his aversion to things being made in China enough to stop HIM from buying things there that could have been sourced in the US. > > But oh right, he’s a “business man” > > No, he’s a con man who suckered a lot of rubes. They deserve the scorn heaped upon them, even if I know it’s counter productive. Facts, please. I keep hearing Trump haters saying this. Facts. The China thing had legs. But it wasn’t nearly harped on enough. People just kept calling him a con man without examples. Hillary was called crooked and they could point to the server. THAT is why she lost. Trump a con man was nebulous. Nothing substantive was every bandied about. Hillary as secretive and self centered was backed up by the server and her jump to NY and then abandoning NY for the executive jobs (first her run for President, then taking the Secretary of State job). ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/104 "2016-11-17T02:19:25Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Actually, what Hillary voted for was to give Bush authorization to go to war with Iraq. This may not seem like an important distinction to you, but it is one if you consider the context: Bush asked for this authorization because he claimed that it was the best chance to prevent war by showing Saddam that we were serious enough that he would allow inspectors in. And, in fact, it worked: He did allow the inspectors in and the inspectors found essentially nothing and evidence that the U.S. intelligence was garbage ([Inspectors Call U.S. Tips 'Garbage' - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/inspectors-call-us-tips-garbage/)). Bush went to war anyway. It is semantics to differentiate between voting for the Iraq war and authorizing Bush to go to war. It is a vote that allows troops to be put in harms way. > [@jshore](#): > > And, Hillary hasn’t lied about her vote, unlike Trump who has lied about what his expressed views were on the Iraq war before it started ([PolitiFact | Trump repeats wrong claim that he opposed Iraq War](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/07/donald-trump/trump-repeats-wrong-claim-he-opposed-iraq-war/)). Please read that again VERY CAREFULLY. It says, at best, Trump was completely wishy washy on Iraq. Sort of for it, sort of against it. But the Hillary camp says “he was for it, too!!” and everyone can clearly see it just isn’t that clear. So claiming it is just makes it look like shit it being flung. If the Hillary camp would have just presented the facts and stopped trying to make more of them than what is there I think she would have won. This is a perfect example of that. > [@jshore](#): > > As for the evidence of Trump’s lies, look here for example: [PolitiFact | Donald Trump](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) compared to Clinton: [PolitiFact | Hillary Clinton](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/) > > Here is one example of the sort of egregious lies that Trump was telling just a few days before the election: [Trump Recalls President Obama/Protester Incident Incorrectly | Donald J. Trump tells a massive, whopping, flagrant, blatant, complete lie about the way President Obama handled one of his supporters | By NowThis ImpactFacebook](https://www.facebook.com/NowThisElection/videos/1331013263596827/) The brazenness is just amazing. I watched the video and, well, all it does is show Trump saying one thing and Obama saying something else. It doesn’t show who is right or wrong. It just claims Trump is wrong. Maybe I missed the “ah ha!” moment, though. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/105 "2016-11-17T02:37:35Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I watched the video and, well, all it does is show Trump saying one thing and Obama saying something else. It doesn’t show who is right or wrong. It just claims Trump is wrong. Maybe I missed the “ah ha!” moment, though. It’s real simple. Obama was at a rally when Clinton supporters started vebaly abusing a trump supporter and Obama told them to cut it out, the man had a right to his opinion and deserved respect for his military service and deference for his age. Trump claimed that Obama was screaming at the trump supporter and verbally abusing him. [Politifact.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/nov/06/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-obama-screamed-prot/) > [@](#): > > While Obama was campaigning for Clinton, rally-goers began to shout and boo at a Trump supporter in the crowd. Obama tried to calm the situation, repeatedly yelling at the crowd to “hold up,” “listen,” and “sit down and be quiet for a second.” > > When the noise settled a bit, Obama defended the protester’s right to speak out. > > "You’ve got an older gentleman who is supporting his candidate, " Obama said. “He’s not doing nothing. You don’t have to worry about him.” > > Then, Obama explained to the Clinton supporters why they should respect this man. > > “You have to go back and look and study and see what happened,” Trump said at a rally in Hershey, Pa., later that evening. “They never moved the camera and (Obama) spent so much time screaming at a protester, and frankly it was a disgrace.” ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/106 "2016-11-17T02:39:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Politifact](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/) I read two of the “pants on fire” lies they accuse Trump of. 1. $6 Billion lost by the state department. The claim is the money isn’t lost, they just don’t know where it went because the accounting is bad. I’m not sure what people think “lost” means in this sense if not exactly this? If they can’t account for how the money was spent, it was essentially lost. 2. Oversampling of polls to suppress votes. First, the articles itself claims that no one would ever do this as it would be suicide to be so wrong. Guess what? They were that wrong. The election outcome itself would seem to suggest someone, a lot of someones, in fact, were polling the wrong people. Second, Trump’s comment that this is a way to suppress votes seems not completely untrue to me. It is part of the reason election results in states aren’t released until the polls close, so as not to sway late voters, yes? If everyone thinks the outcome is a foregone conclusion, the side that thinks they are going to lose might be less inclined to show up. So, once again, these arguments are just not as compelling as the Hillary camp really wants them to be. There is just nothing here that make Trump the unequivocally evil charlatan that everyone just _knows_ he is. On the other hand, there is slippery Hillary with the email, political aspirations and “I’ll do anything to be popular” persona. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/107 "2016-11-17T02:49:37Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I read two of the “pants on fire” lies they accuse Trump of. > > 1. $6 Billion lost by the state department. The claim is the money isn’t lost, they just don’t know where it went because the accounting is bad. I’m not sure what people think “lost” means in this sense if not exactly this? If they can’t account for how the money was spent, it was essentially lost. > 2. Oversampling of polls to suppress votes. First, the articles itself claims that no one would ever do this as it would be suicide to be so wrong. Guess what? They were that wrong. The election outcome itself would seem to suggest someone, a lot of someones, in fact, were polling the wrong people. Second, Trump’s comment that this is a way to suppress votes seems not completely untrue to me. It is part of the reason election results in states aren’t released until the polls close, so as not to sway late voters, yes? If everyone thinks the outcome is a foregone conclusion, the side that thinks they are going to lose might be less inclined to show up. > > So, once again, these arguments are just not as compelling as the Hillary camp really wants them to be. > > There is just nothing here that make Trump the unequivocally evil charlatan that everyone just _knows_ he is. On the other hand, there is slippery Hillary with the email, political aspirations and “I’ll do anything to be popular” persona. [6 Billion](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/20/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-says-6-billion-went-missing-state-de/) > [@](#): > > Trump’s inaccurate claim stems from a misreading of a March 2014 alert out of the State Department’s Office of the Inspector General. The alert found that\*\* paperwork for various contracts\*\* was mismanaged. These contracts were together worth about $6 billion. The money didn’t go missing; the paperwork did. The accounting is correct. The 6 billion is not lost, it’s known what it was spent for. The money was sent to where i t was supposed to go. The check ( or whatever is used) was cashed. The paperwork/contracts are missing. As far as the vote suppression, some reason you couldn’t link to it? There’s several articles dealing with Trump’s claims of a rigged election. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/108 "2016-11-17T02:53:48Z")
[Vote suppression](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/25/donald-trump/trump-absurd-claims-podesta-rigged-polls/) > [@](#): > > We were curious about Trump’s charge of bogus polling. > > Trump is wrong that Wikileaks shows Podesta rigging the polls against him. He’s referring to an email obtained by the hacker group from\*\* Clinton’s 2008\*\* (not 2016) campaign on what appears to be **internal polling** (not public ones published by media organizations). And oversampling in this instance means polling more people in a specific demographic group for analysis – not ignoring Republican voters to suppress their votes. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/109 "2016-11-17T03:06:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [6 Billion](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/20/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-says-6-billion-went-missing-state-de/) > > The accounting is correct. The 6 billion is not lost, it’s known what it was spent for. The money was sent to where i t was supposed to go. The check ( or whatever is used) was cashed. The paperwork/contracts are missing. > > As far as the vote suppression, some reason you couldn’t link to it? There’s several articles dealing with Trump’s claims of a rigged election. From the article: In other words, the State Department was terrible at paperwork. The $6 billion figure refers to the total amount affected by file mismanagement. It’s akin to failing to get a receipt for your $20 lunch. Documentation over where that $20 went is gone, but not the $20 itself. Someone claimed to need reimbursement of $20 for lunch, which they may have been due, but didn’t get a receipt. Maybe instead they used the $20 on lottery tickets. We don’t know, because there is no receipt. The State department paid, but they have no proof they got what they paid for. Trump called this “lost.” I don’t see that as “pants on fire.” I could link to the vote suppression one, but I _really_ don’t want to go point by point through politifact arguments and try each one here. I looked at two, found them to be less than “oh wow, he really is a pants on fire liar in those!” and showed you why. These are just symptomatic of the entire campaign. He says things that are borderline true if you squint and everyone is claiming he is a bald faced liar in the most obvious way. Unfortunately, that only makes the accuser look bad because while Trump was probably lying, or at the least wrong, shouting the vitriol and pointing and saying, “liar! liar!” when it just isn’t as clear as that makes all other claims against him look dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/110 "2016-11-17T03:13:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But here is the difference. We don’t call the Dems “ignorant” or “deplorable” or “uneducated”. Your side does that all of the time to us. [Republican official calls Hillary Clinton a cunt.](http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/308579/republican-official-finally-just-calls-hillary-a-cunt/) [Republican Mayor resigns over response to tweet calling Michelle Obama an “Ape in Heels.”](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37997700) [Orange County GOP official calls Obama’s parents monkeys.](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/orange-county-gop-official-solves-birther-mystery-presidents-parents-were-monkeys/) [Republican Congressional candidate shares multiple memes comparing Obama to apes.](http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/10/05/republican-shared-racist-memes-pres-obama-now-hes-asked-resign/) Sorry, you were saying? ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/111 "2016-11-17T03:22:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [6 Billion](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/20/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-says-6-billion-went-missing-state-de/) > > The accounting is correct. The 6 billion is not lost, it’s known what it was spent for. The money was sent to where i t was supposed to go. The check ( or whatever is used) was cashed. The paperwork/contracts are missing. > > As far as the vote suppression, some reason you couldn’t link to it? There’s several articles dealing with Trump’s claims of a rigged election. I can’t honestly speak for a Trump supporter because I’m not one. I just am tired of seeing all these screams about how Trump is a lot of things without any concrete examples. I think that is why Hillary lost. They both lie, cheat, look out for themselves, etc. But Trump could point to something concrete, something people could relate to, when mostly all I saw from the Hillary side was accusations and overstatements of some of Trump’s statements. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/112 "2016-11-17T03:33:20Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > It is semantics to differentiate between voting for the Iraq war and authorizing Bush to go to war. It is a vote that allows troops to be put in harms way. Well…I am not going to defend her vote since I don’t really agree with it. But, I do see how it can be hard to vote in a way that essentially says, “I trust Saddam Hussein more than I trust our President” even if that is the correct way to vote. Overall, it should be Bush who should be called a liar for claiming that his intention was to keep the peace when his intention was basically to go to war no matter what. > [@](#): > > Please read that again VERY CAREFULLY. It says, at best, Trump was completely wishy washy on Iraq. Sort of for it, sort of against it. But the Hillary camp says “he was for it, too!!” and everyone can clearly see it just isn’t that clear. So claiming it is just makes it look like shit it being flung. You can spin it as you wish but Politifact rated Trump’s statement as “false”. I suppose that you can take solace that they didn’t rate it “pant’s on fire” as they have with so many of his other statements. > [@](#): > > I watched the video and, well, all it does is show Trump saying one thing and Obama saying something else. It doesn’t show who is right or wrong. It just claims Trump is wrong. Maybe I missed the “ah ha!” moment, though. Yeah…You pretty much missed the whole point. The video intersperses Trump’s description of an incident involving Obama and a protester with the actual incident itself. You can see that Trump completely lied about the incident. He claimed what Obama did was exactly the opposite of what Obama really did. And, in case you think either the Obama video or the Trump video were taken out of context, you can find the full unedited ones on the web…And, they were not. The sort of sick thing about this kind of psychopathic lying that the Donald displayed there is that there is a sort of ironic truth in the claim that if he had done what Obama did, the media would have characterized him as coming unhinged. In some perverted sense that is true: If Trump had dealt with a protester in the statesman-like way that Obama did then the media, and any reasonable person, would have concluded that Trump had basically been replaced by an alien being because it would have been so completely out of character. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/113 "2016-11-17T03:37:58Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I can’t honestly speak for a Trump supporter because I’m not one. I just am tired of seeing all these screams about how Trump is a lot of things without any concrete examples. No…We are giving you the concrete examples but you are just denying them with arguments that are frankly pathetic. And, then you are bringing up a lot of lies about Hillary that we are debunking. For a non-Trump supporter, you are pretty brainwashed by him and his minions. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/114 "2016-11-17T04:00:54Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Well…I am not going to defend her vote since I don’t really agree with it. But, I do see how it can be hard to vote in a way that essentially says, “I trust Saddam Hussein more than I trust our President” even if that is the correct way to vote. Overall, it should be Bush who should be called a liar for claiming that his intention was to keep the peace when his intention was basically to go to war no matter what. In 3 months Trump comes to Congress and says, “Canada has weapons of mass destruction. Who do you trust more, them, or me?” Do you think any sane congress critter is going to vote to allow Trump the power to decide whether or not to invade, because they should trust Trump more than Trudeau? Doubtful. > [@jshore](#): > > You can spin it as you wish but Politifact rated Trump’s statement as “false”. I suppose that you can take solace that they didn’t rate it “pant’s on fire” as they have with so many of his other statements. If someone is going to call Trump a charlatan, con-man and liar, and the best they can come up with is that he lied about his stance on Iraq, I’d say they are overstating just how bad he is. Again, he was not strongly for or against it. > [@jshore](#): > > Yeah…You pretty much missed the whole point. The video intersperses Trump’s description of an incident involving Obama and a protester with the actual incident itself. You can see that Trump completely lied about the incident. He claimed what Obama did was exactly the opposite of what Obama really did. And, in case you think either the Obama video or the Trump video were taken out of context, you can find the full unedited ones on the web…And, they were not. > > The sort of sick thing about this kind of psychopathic lying that the Donald displayed there is that there is a sort of ironic truth in the claim that if he had done what Obama did, the media would have characterized him as coming unhinged. In some perverted sense that is true: If Trump had dealt with a protester in the statesman-like way that Obama did then the media, and any reasonable person, would have concluded that Trump had basically been replaced by an alien being because it would have been so completely out of character. I didn’t think the videos were out of context, I just didn’t see how they demonstrated Trump being a liar. So let’s say this video does show Trump to have lied. At best, the playing field is now level. Hillary has lied, as politifact has shown. They’ve caught her in fewer lies, but she is a liar. Now you know her to be a liar. Why would you trust her as President? We’ve established both candidates lie. Now the question is which liar do you trust more? The one lying about other candidates, or the one subverting government security and rules and regulations to try and keep secrets from the very organization that is in place to put a check on her power? Do you not see how the lies just don’t equate, even if Trump lied 5x more than Hillary? It isn’t just the quantity, it is what they lied about. Or at the very least, what they were appear to be secretive about. I don’t want to debate this. I really don’t. I don’t support Trump, I think he is by far the worst of the two and in every conceivable way Hillary would make a better President. But this thread asked the OP to explain why he might have supported Trump. I can’t speak for him or any Trump supporter, but I can tell you why I can see why people would. If you take a step back you might begin to see it. What is damn clear is that WAY too many people never took that step back and severely underestimated or over estimated what others were seeing. I’ve been saying the same thing to many of my friends and coworkers through this entire campaign. Surely there had to be better examples of Trump being a charlatan and con-man than just everyone “knows” it. Why weren’t those on every billboard across America? Instead, we get nit-picky statements that he is a liar because he said the state department “lost” money it didn’t have receipts for and he made dubious claims about his support for Iraq. Hillary tried to portray him as misogynistic about the Miss Universe thing and when I dug into that it was very much not as she wanted it to be. If that is the best they could come up with to portray the guy as unfit, it is no wonder things didn’t go as planned. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/115 "2016-11-17T04:12:20Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > No…We are giving you the concrete examples but you are just denying them with arguments that are frankly pathetic. And, then you are bringing up a lot of lies about Hillary that we are debunking. > > For a non-Trump supporter, you are pretty brainwashed by him and his minions. yeah… accusations like that are why Trump won. Seriously. The concrete examples: Politifact says he lied a lot. I’m not going to vet them all. I looked at two, and they aren’t nearly as concrete as you want to believe. I showed you why. If you see it differently, great. I’m not saying Trump was right, I’m saying it isn’t as bald faced as you want it to be. You want to know why Trump was supported, try to wrap your mind that possibly, just possibly, others might have a different perspective. Then you can argue from that, not just stomp your feet and claim you are right. That’s it. This started when I quoted someone saying Trump is factually a cheating conman. I’ve not seen one fact to support that. I’ll grant he is factually a liar, but we all knew that of both candidates going into this. My point then is my point now. Instead of just name calling, start pointing out the real examples of him being a conman. Bring forth what must be dozens of business partners that he screwed over. Trump university and his charity probably would have been good, but I never saw anyone beating him over the head about those. They should have. His dozens of sleazy business deals should have had more press than fuzzy Arkansas land deals. Since I hate Trump and I can’t name any concrete examples of his sleaziness, I can easily see why someone more on the fence could hold their nose and vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/116 "2016-11-17T12:34:22Z")
Trump’s birther lies might be the best and oldest example of his disregard for the truth. Pretty much everything he said about Obama’s birthplace since 2011 was a blatant (and racist) lie. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/117 "2016-11-17T14:54:03Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I am getting so frustrated here I’m about to cry. \*I am begging you. \*From the bottom of my heart. Please explain yourself as **youwiththeface** requested. I really, really, really want to understand this calculated risk. I want to know why half the population of this country seems okay with a sexual predator. I am terrified of the behavior that Trump’s behavior seems to be endorsing. **Notheretoargue** just isn’t into “why” questions, I don’t think. I think behavior like his is more evidence that this election was decided on considerations of pathos, not logos or ethos. These [two](http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/) [articles](http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-helpful-answers-to-societys-most-uncomfortable-questions/) provide the best explanation I have seen anywhere of what happened. Don’t judge them by the source, they are really quite good and ought to go a long way towards scratching your itch of wanting to understand. They did for me. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/118 "2016-11-17T16:28:22Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > I could link to the vote suppression one, but I _really_ don’t want to go point by point through politifact arguments and try each one here. I looked at two, found them to be less than “oh wow, he really is a pants on fire liar in those!” and showed you why. > > These are just symptomatic of the entire campaign. He says things that are borderline true if you squint and everyone is claiming he is a bald faced liar in the most obvious way. Unfortunately, that only makes the accuser look bad because while Trump was probably lying, or at the least wrong, shouting the vitriol and pointing and saying, “liar! liar!” when it just isn’t as clear as that makes all other claims against him look dubious. “I just want to know why you call Trump a liar. Yes, you provided a link to a long list of examples of him lying, and I picked two that don’t seem that important and have decided to ignore the rest, but I ask again: where is the evidence that he’s a liar?” ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/119 "2016-11-17T17:00:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “I just want to know why you call Trump a liar. Yes, you provided a link to a long list of examples of him lying, and I picked two that don’t seem that important and have decided to gnore the rest, but I ask again: where is the evidence that he’s a liar?” That man is a bigot, racist, xenophobe, con man. Prove it. He identifies as a man, looks like a man and everyone agrees he is a man. Therefore, my assertion. Is true and he is a bigot, racist, xenophobe con man. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727/120 "2016-11-18T09:03:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Which candidate is more of a lying, cheating con man is _not_ a matter of “perception”. It’s a matter of cold, hard fact. And the fact is, the bigger con man here is _Trump_. By every conceivable metric, and by a degree that makes the _perception_ that Clinton is somehow the bigger liar or scammer or sociopath a matter of delusion, not rationality. > > Yes, our _perception_ lost, but that’s like asking people, “Which one of these two coins is bigger”, and having many of them pick the dime over the quarter. It doesn’t change the fact that the quarter is the bigger coin, and it’s both bizarre and frightening to see so many people get such a simple question so wrong. You’re asserting your petception as though it was fact. Liberals will dismiss out of hand any of the scandals Hillary is dogged by as mere right wing witch hunting. They’ll accept as gospel any negative claims about Trump. You’re blinded by your ideology. Hillary cares about Hillary and little besides. If you believe otherwise you’re no more enlightened than the most ardent Trump supporter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/1-trump-voters-thoughts/771727.md?page=7)