# 10 Commandments Monument bothers you? Get over yourself-you're bothering me **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733 "2004-04-24T00:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/81 "2004-04-24T21:21:18Z")
**danceswithcats** , how gracious of you to aknowledge my apology to you! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/82 "2004-04-24T21:28:27Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Cite? Common knowledge - forefathers, christianity is biggest religion on planet, president Bush, 10 commandments all over the place, WWJD lettering all over the place, most common religion in U.S. House of Representatives, most common religion in U.S. Senate, more christian churches than any other etc etc etc etc ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/83 "2004-04-24T21:35:42Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Attitudes like yours are the reason for the legal protests of religion that even appears to be officially sanctioned. If our current president had his way we would indeed be a Christian nation. And once that had the force of law, anyone who was not a Christian would be an outlaw. That may sound like a good idea to you, but, frankly, I would not like to return to the dark days of the _auto da fe_. > > Whether you like it or not, this is _ **not** _ a Christian nation, or a Judeo-Christian one. As the Founders intended, it is a secular nation in which my rights as an agnostic are equal to yours as a (I assume) Christian. Thank God. 😉 > > The “In God We Trust” on our money is (and has been) the subject of another debate. I doubt that it will be settled anytime soon. Well, I suppose it depends to a large extent on how you define “christian nation” Me, I define the U.S. as a Christian Nation because Christianity is the predominant religion. You don’t know anything about me or my attitudes or my religion or what I might consider a “good idea” because when you read, well, you presume too much. And, the “God” on the money is the Christian God just as the “God” in the pledge of allegiance is the Christian “God.” You may not like it but that is reality. And, insofar as religion was involved in the 9/11 tragedy, well that was because we are a christian nation. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/84 "2004-04-24T21:40:07Z")
> [@county](#): > > And, insofar as religion was involved in the 9/11 tragedy, well that was because we are a christian nation. Which would certainly explain the coordinated attacks versus Mexico, Canada, Indonesia, all of western Europe, about a third of Africa and Russia as well. Oh…wait… You say they weren’t attacked? Maybe you need to rethink that last statement (and probably the rest of the blither you spewed). ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/85 "2004-04-24T21:44:01Z")
Little off topic, but this one bugs me as well. My wife and I were married in a church. Why the hell did we need a marriage license? That’s religion and government hand-in-hand right there. **Otto** I thought I was _lowering_ the bar. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/86 "2004-04-24T21:52:55Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Little off topic, but this one bugs me as well. My wife and I were married in a church. Why the hell did we need a marriage license? You didn’t need a marriage license. Lots of people get married in churches without a marriage license. You need a marriage license if you don’t mind having to do it over again down at city hall in front of the JoP. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/87 "2004-04-24T22:29:08Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You didn’t need a marriage license. Lots of people get married in churches without a marriage license. You need a marriage license if you don’t mind having to do it over again down at city hall in front of the JoP. Huh. Didn’t know that. Disregard previous post. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/88 "2004-04-24T23:07:47Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Which would certainly explain the coordinated attacks versus Mexico, Canada, Indonesia, all of western Europe, about a third of Africa and Russia as well. > > Oh…wait… You say they weren’t attacked? Maybe you need to rethink that last statement (and probably the rest of the blither you spewed). What I said was insofar as religion was concerned; it was a qualified statement. If you want to refute that, have at it but your response was not logical, however much fun it was to write. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/89 "2004-04-24T23:16:56Z")
> [@county](#): > > Well, I suppose it depends to a large extent on how you define “christian nation” Me, I define the U.S. as a Christian Nation because Christianity is the predominant religion. You don’t know anything about me or my attitudes or my religion or what I might consider a “good idea” because when you read, well, you presume too much. > > And, the “God” on the money is the Christian God just as the “God” in the pledge of allegiance is the Christian “God.” You may not like it but that is reality. > > And, insofar as religion was involved in the 9/11 tragedy, well that was because we are a christian nation. This may be a slight hijack, but… Do you believe that putting “One Nation, Under Jesus” in the pledge would be appropriate? What about “In Jesus We Trust” on currency? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/90 "2004-04-24T23:17:04Z")
> [@county](#): > > What I said was insofar as religion was concerned; it was a qualified statement. If you want to refute that, have at it but your response was not logical, however much fun it was to write. Then your statement was bullshit. Try this statement on for size: “Insofar as you were involved in the 9/11 tragedy, well that is because you are a moron.” Both statements have equal merit. It’s up to you decide if the amount of that merit is a non-zero value. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/91 "2004-04-24T23:58:56Z")
> [@county](#): > > Common knowledge - forefathers, christianity is biggest religion on planet, president Bush, 10 commandments all over the place, WWJD lettering all over the place, most common religion in U.S. House of Representatives, most common religion in U.S. Senate, more christian churches than any other etc etc etc etc > [@county](#): > > Well, I suppose it depends to a large extent on how you define “christian nation” Me, I define the U.S. as a Christian Nation because Christianity is the predominant religion. You don’t know anything about me or my attitudes or my religion or what I might consider a “good idea” because when you read, well, you presume too much. > > And, the “God” on the money is the Christian God just as the “God” in the pledge of allegiance is the Christian “God.” You may not like it but that is reality. > > And, insofar as religion was involved in the 9/11 tragedy, well that was because we are a christian nation. Most Americans are white. The forefathers were white.\* Almost everyone in Congress is white. Every POTUS in US history has been white. There’s white folks on all the money. You can’t swing a cat in the US without hitting a white person. Does that mean this is a “white country?” \*They weren’t that Christian, though- not so’s you’d notice anyway. Most of them were deists which is significantly different. Thomas Jefferson rejected the divinity of Jesus which is pretty much a de facto rejection of Christianity. George Washington was extremely reticent to voice his religious views, in fact he never publicly declared what he believed, but it was said by some of his closest associates that “he had no religious feelings,” and that he never prayed. He attended church occasionally but never joined in the group prayers, choosing to remain standing while others knelt in prayer. You mentioned GWB but another Republican POTUS, Abraham Lincoln, also categorically and vociferously rejected the divinity of Christ, Biblical miracles, special creation and any assertion that the Bible was the word of God. he once called Jesus an “illegitimate child” and he even wrote a book excoriating Christianity which he left unpublished at the urging of others. He was said to be extremely rationalist in his thought, trusting nothing which could not be demonstrated and was called “terribly, vexatiously skeptical” by others. Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln. Pretty much the upper echelon of US presidents, are they not? And none of them were Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/92 "2004-04-25T01:43:31Z")
Trying to use reason and facts on **County** is about as useful as trying to educate a sack of hammers, **Dio**. He (she?) has his mind made up, and logic will not avail you. Anybody who thinks that right exsists in numbers is beyond logic. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/93 "2004-04-25T04:49:11Z")
> [@county](#): > > Common knowledge… You misspelled ignorance. BTW, re: who founded this country … it’s not a theocracy, so WTF difference does it make if it was unskilled British laborers (Virginia and the Carolinas), British criminals (Georgia), British aristocracy (parts of New England), British families, Spanish settlers (Florida), French Hugeonots (Protestants who fled France), Russians (Alaska), Portugese and Spanish (Middle America on up to Texas and higher, depending on whose view you accept), French (northern bits), and all manner of people who were here before the end of the 15th century, including some Norse/Vikings - again, depending on who you believe … why is it important? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/94 "2004-04-25T05:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Common knowledge - forefathers, christianity is biggest religion on planet, president Bush, 10 commandments all over the place, WWJD lettering all over the place, most common religion in U.S. House of Representatives, most common religion in U.S. Senate, more christian churches than any other etc etc etc etc All of which has WHAT to do with the Constitution? What the hell do people wearing WWJD bracelets have to do with it? If a few years from now most of our Congressman or Senators are Jewish, would America be a Jewish nation? Hint: **No, fuckhead, because the First Amendment was written specifically to prevent that**. > [@](#): > > Well, I suppose it depends to a large extent on how you define “christian nation” Me, I define the U.S. as a Christian Nation because Christianity is the predominant religion. Your definition is fucking stupid, then. Typically, a nation is called Christian or Muslim or whatever if its laws are based on scripture, as is the case in Saudi Arabia and Iran, among others. Our laws are plainly not based on scripture. Feel free to make up your own definitions to suit your purposes if you want, but don’t expect anybody to take you seriously. > [@](#): > > And, the “God” on the money is the Christian God just as the “God” in the pledge of allegiance is the Christian “God.” You may not like it but that is reality. Which is at the heart of the challenges to not only the wording of the pledge and on money, but any number of other _successful_ challenges to government attempts to institute religion. Have you paid attention to the number of court cases related to school prayer have been won by the people opposing school prayer, for example? > [@](#): > > And, insofar as religion was involved in the 9/11 tragedy, well that was because we are a christian nation. I don’t know what the fuck this means. September 11th was a tragedy because thousands of people were murdered, dipshit. Not everyone who died was Christian, and certainly not everyone who mourned was Christian. If it had happened in a country where the majority religion was a different one, it would be just a great a tragedy - except to you, I suspect, because you’re a fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/95 "2004-04-25T05:42:28Z")
_still wondering if **danceswithcats** will aknowledge my apology, or if I will remain “ZERO” with him/her_ 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/96 "2004-04-25T05:53:17Z")
Great post, **Marley**! Just reading it is almost as good as telling **County** off myself. Sadly, if reason doesn’t penetrate his concrete skull, it’s unlikely that he’ll respond any better to being hollerd on. But it does feel good, doesn’t it! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/97 "2004-04-25T06:02:42Z")
Yeah. Some people are totally immune to reason, and if **county** hadn’t proven himself to be one of those in so many of his past posts, I wouldn’t have responded like that. But as long as people like that piss me off, I might as well get it off my chest. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/98 "2004-04-25T12:06:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > All of which has WHAT to do with the Constitution? What the hell do people wearing WWJD bracelets have to do with it? If a few years from now most of our Congressman or Senators are Jewish, would America be a Jewish nation? Hint: **No, fuckhead, because the First Amendment was written specifically to prevent that**. > Your definition is fucking stupid, then. Typically, a nation is called Christian or Muslim or whatever if its laws are based on scripture, as is the case in Saudi Arabia and Iran, among others. Our laws are plainly not based on scripture. Feel free to make up your own definitions to suit your purposes if you want, but don’t expect anybody to take you seriously. > Which is at the heart of the challenges to not only the wording of the pledge and on money, but any number of other _successful_ challenges to government attempts to institute religion. Have you paid attention to the number of court cases related to school prayer have been won by the people opposing school prayer, for example? > I don’t know what the fuck this means. September 11th was a tragedy because thousands of people were murdered, dipshit. Not everyone who died was Christian, and certainly not everyone who mourned was Christian. If it had happened in a country where the majority religion was a different one, it would be just a great a tragedy - except to you, I suspect, because you’re a fucking moron. You go beyond moron, you are an imbecile and a jackass. A nation is a “stable, historically developed community of people…” and that definition comes from Webster and is not something I just pulled out of my ass. And that definition further elucidates my use of those many examples you are not bright enough to understand. And in a few years the U.S Senate and the U.S. House of Representatives won’t be Jewish, exactly because this is a Christian nation, like it has been for over 200 years in case you haven’t noticed. And as far as those court cases go, you goat felching pissant, well there a lot of court cases exactly because America is a christian nation. With regard to your ranting about 9/11, well it is just that, a giant pissant rant which responds to nothing I have said. You people who get all excited and want to verbally jerk-off when something touches a nerve should really sit back and read the fucking words for a change. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/99 "2004-04-25T12:10:27Z")
> [@county](#): > > You people who get all excited and want to verbally jerk-off when something touches a nerve should really sit back and read the fucking words for a change. > > Have a nice day. I have read your words. And I have concluded that you are a dick. Having a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733/100 "2004-04-25T12:28:46Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > [Nope](http://www.ffrf.org/news/index.php?n=lacrossevictory.html). > This is a Wisconsin case and is not binding outside the district but at least one court has found that selling off a parcel of public land for the purpose of maintaining a TC monument is unconstitutional. Good cite, **Otto**. About a year ago, I had some research done on this issue, and this was the case closest to my client’s real life question. (and even closer to the issue presented by the OP here.) There’s also a California case involving a donated mountaintop cross on public land. IIRC, the land was donated at least 50 years ago, with the cross already on it. The city maintained it. That was held to violate the establishment clause. It was a big, honking mountaintop monument visible for miles. (Okay, it didn’t actually honk.) I’m at home and too lazy to track down the research at the moment, but I think I’m remembering the facts correctly. OTOH, religious objects or buildings with valid historical or artistic significance can be maintained. No one is going to prohibit an art show with Renaissance Christian paintings, a display of pre-war Jewish religious objects from Vienna, or the Alamo, even though it/they are owned, maintained or shown with gov’t $$$. A cross put up by the local Elks club 50 years ago in a city park doesn’t rise to this level, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments-monument-bothers-you-get-over-yourself-youre-bothering-me/241733.md?page=6)