# 10 Commandments **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736 "2012-02-04T05:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Granny\_Rainbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Granny\_Rainbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Granny_Rainbow)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/101 "2012-02-04T08:22:04Z")
[quote=“Granny\_Rainbow, post:100, topic:611736”] > [@J\_Cubed](#): > > Then the answer is “no”. One of the main problems with laws from long ago is that they fail to account for all of things we’ve learned since then. And laws that have been recorded from the oral history of a small wandering tribe from thousands of years ago are not really relevant to the modern world. > > Your OP posed a question that was loaded with Judeo-Christian assumptions, whether you meant to or not. And judging by your responses to the people trying to question those assumptions, you have internalized them pretty deeply. As I imagine you truly conceive it, you are just [begging the question](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question): Would the world be better if everyone just followed the laws given to us by the all-knowing, all-powerful, perfect creator of everything? Well, duh, if that were all true, then the answer is “yes”. > > But really, what do you mean by this? > Massive numbers of unpunished murder sprees? A wave of serial first-degree parent disrespect? Organized gangs of ox-coveters? Because, in my experience, when people talk about all “the troubles we see today”, they usually mean Negroes marrying white women and scary teenagers who wear their pants too low. You’ll have to be more specific if you want a real answer. > > If you want a list of rules that will make the world a better place, I can give you some that have the benefit of 5000 years of additional thought behind them: > [ol] > [li]Treat others the way you want to be treated.[/li][li]Seriously, don’t be a douche. [/li][li]You know how you think you’re the center of the universe? Everyone else thinks that about themselves.[/li][li]Most people really do know right from wrong. Heed that sense.[/li][li]Authority is almost always abused. It must always be subjected to scrutiny.[/li][li]Most rules that nominally exist to protect society from some nebulous threat or taint are invalid. Do not enact or enforce them without specific, credible evidence.[/li][/ol] > There, easy as can be, and 40% shorter than your list. Also, allows for a flexible work week and closes the parent-on-child abuse loophole. And still outlaws murder!p,gh ---
**Author:** ![Granny\_Rainbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Granny\_Rainbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Granny_Rainbow)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/102 "2012-02-04T08:37:10Z")
[quote=“Granny\_Rainbow, post:101, topic:611736”] > [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > There is not ever, and no ever, and not any excuse excuse ever for…my my turtntthelp…omg someonecan glep to help to give them a elap esatrreacteed an help omg ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/103 "2012-02-04T08:41:55Z")
Pentecostal? ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/104 "2012-02-04T08:46:39Z")
[quote=“Granny\_Rainbow, post:102, topic:611736”] > [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > > There is not ever, and no ever, and not any excuse excuse ever for…my my turtntthelp…omg someonecan glep to help to give them a elap esatrreacteed an help omg speaking in tongues, or hopefully not a health concern? ---
**Author:** ![Granny\_Rainbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Granny\_Rainbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Granny_Rainbow)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/105 "2012-02-04T08:47:10Z")
[quote=“Granny\_Rainbow, post:101, topic:611736”] > [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > There is not ever, and no ever, and not any excuse excuse ever for…my my turtntthelp…omg someonecan glep to help to give them a elap esatrreacteed an OMG than yr yougyHe sig as londid as loingedas he longas hedemosedamnnell\ ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/106 "2012-02-04T08:55:33Z")
[quote=“florez, post:104, topic:611736”] > [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > > speaking in tongues, or hopefully not a health concern? It looks like either self-medication or kitty on the keyboard to me. I’m tempted to suspend her for 24 hours, but on the other hand, _I_ need to get to bed, and I think it will be a learning experience for us all if she continues trying to justify her notions. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/107 "2012-02-04T08:56:24Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Pentecostal? Demonic possession. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/108 "2012-02-04T09:06:18Z")
Well, assuming that God doesn’t actually exist (Granny, feel free to prove me wrong) and thus ignoring the commandments that directly relate to him, I’d guess not stealing, killing, and perjuring is a good idea. I’d like a definition for “adultery” before weighing in on that (i.e. is it still “adultery” after you’ve gotten a divorce), and I don’t see a reasonable expectation for a human being not to “covet” (in fact, without coveting, there’d be no progress), and “honor thy father and mother” is somewhat vague… So… no, I don’t see the Ten Commandments being _that_ useful. The Golden Rule is simpler and more comprehensive and, I figure, more useful. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/109 "2012-02-04T09:06:44Z")
> [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > > …don’t you think if the 10 commandments had been obeyed thru out humanity’s existence, there would be hardly any of the troubles we see today? It would be a disaster. Just consider the Sabbath. There are conservative Jewish communities that strictly observe the Sabbath, and they face all sorts of moronic challenges 1/7th of their lives. [There are exceptions for life-threatening emergencies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikuach_nefesh) in _Rabbinical tradition_, but those exceptions are not contained in the Bible itself. That means a Biblically correct society wouldn’t have ambulances or doctors or grocers or electrical power plant workers during the Sabbath. Even if you allow the exception, I suggest you read all the trouble some people (apparently) go through just to keep the precious commandment. Or the prohibition on [graven images](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Judaism). Pretty much any attempt to enforce this commandment would decimate art and free expression (and probably science in general, as I suspect a model of Saturn with its rings would be considered a representation of something “in the heavens”). While we’re on the subject of free expression and science, the commandment to worship one specific God is fundamentally totalitarian and would have stifled scientific inquiry (as it does throughout the Islamic world today, who can’t get their act together because they’re so worried about the theological implications of their experiments). But why just keep those ten? Why not the other 603 _other_ commandments? Biblical morality claims its legitimacy through (divine) authority, but once you accept an authority’s dictates as inherently moral, you have to take the whole set. God commanded people never mix their linen and their wool. God commanded animal sacrifice as a method of atonement for scores of sins. God commanded that unruly children be put to death. If God’s commandments are good, why not follow those equally good commandments? On the other hand, if you can pick and choose which of the perfect God’s orders are really good, then your morality can have no authority at all. You didn’t suggest we should _only_ follow these commandments, so maybe we can exercise some human judgment and still ban slavery (even though brutally enslaving non-Jews is totally fine in the Bible) or tweak topics that the God hasn’t made commandments on, but it’s still a horrible, terrible society we’d be creating. Real, true, effective morality boils down to a recognition of every human being as equally legitimate and worthy as every other. This dovetails with common versions of what is sometimes called the golden rule. Treat others as you want them to treat you, but first and foremost understand the way they want to be treated may be different than how you want to be treated. “Don’t be a douche.” If we develop our morality through reason, then we don’t have to get bogged down with details of whether picking up the phone to call an ambulance is technically work and violating a sacred edict, or whether it would be a sin to build a planetarium. The strength of rational morality is that if it creates a negative outcome, you can try to reason out a way to fix it. The goal is some version of minimizing suffering and maximizing well-being, as opposed to mindlessly obeying the proclamations written in a stone. ---
**Author:** ![dorsk188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f05b48/32.png) [@dorsk188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorsk188)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/110 "2012-02-04T09:28:00Z")
> [@dorsk188](#): > > Just consider the Sabbath. Sorry, I forgot to toss in [this link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activities_prohibited_on_Shabbat) to the rules conservative Jewish communities deal with the Sabbath. Some examples of prohibitions on the Sabbath: > [@](#): > > While extinguishing a fire is forbidden even when great property damage will result, in the event of any life-threatening fire one is required to extinguish the flames. > [@](#): > > It is held by some that the act of Halakhic “building” is not actually performed (and therefore, the prohibition not violated) if the construction is not completed. From this, some authorities derive that it is prohibited to use electricity because, by turning on a switch, a circuit is completed and thus “built.” > [@](#): > > Baking, cooking, frying, or any method of applying heat to food to prepare for eating is included in this prohibition. This is different from “preparing”. For example, one can make a salad because the form of the vegetables doesn’t change, only the size. However one cannot cook the vegetables to soften them for eating. Also, a bonus link about [Sabbath Elevators](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator) that work on their own (wasting gobs of electricity, I’m sure) when observant Jews aren’t allowed to push buttons, but can still inexplicably ride elevators. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/111 "2012-02-04T09:36:10Z")
> [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > > I C most of you peeps are onboard for “victimless” crimes. Come on boys and girls. There is really no such thing as a Victimless Crime. God knows what you are all doing… There are no gods; and even if there were it doesn’t matter what it/they know or don’t know; that doesn’t make it a crime. It’s the laws of the country you are residing in that make something a crime, not the opinion of your god. And there are plenty of victimless crimes; or for that matter, crimes that are outright admirable. It depends on what the crimes are. > [@Granny\_Rainbow](#): > > [QUOTE=Der Trihs] > No, it is very much a Christian issue, since you are speaking of several rules that are specifically Christian. That in fact demand adherence to Christianity. It is YOUR quiestion [/QUOTE] No, it’s _your OP_. You asked about the Ten Commandments; which are religious commandments that demand people worship a particular god. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/112 "2012-02-04T12:01:58Z")
> [@ambushed](#): > > Dear Granny Rainbow, > > I sincerely and abjectly apologize for my verbal abuse. I genuinely thought this was a Pit thread, but I appear to have been mistaken about that. > > I still hold the same views about your posts, but since it wasn’t actually the Pit, it was against the rules to use the language I did, and I’m sorry. _\_ It appears the thread started in the Pit and was moved. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736/113 "2012-02-04T12:33:56Z")
**Granny Rainbow** , I am not sure what your last few posts were all about, but I am going to close this thread to give you a chance to start over. Please read all the responses to your views, (not just the reflexively hostile ones), and consider those before you re-submit your argument. Also, refrain from calling other posters names, (such as “sick fucks”), when a thread is not in **The BBQ Pit** forum. As to your observations about atheists, this board has a very large number of atheists on it, so appeals to religious beliefs will rarely carry much weight in a discussion and your style of posting will never convert any of them to your beliefs. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-commandments/611736.md?page=5)