# 10 Musicians You Don't Like From The 60s? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433 "2019-05-03T19:29:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/41 "2019-05-04T22:47:03Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > I’ve never heard the gay thing. If he was undercover, he was deep undercover considering he has 5 children with 5 different women over 3 decades… According to this, he’s been married twice, and two of those children are adopted (stepchildren). The first inkling I heard that he was NOT gay was when I read about the car accident that nearly killed Robert Plant, probably about 10 years after it happened, and that Page’s daughter was in the car, although she was not seriously injured. ETA: Oops, almost forgot to post a link. > **[Jimmy Page | Personal life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Page#Personal_life)** > > During the 1960s Page was with American recording artist Jackie DeShannon, who is cited as a possible inspiration for the Page composition and Led Zeppelin recording "Tangerine". > French model Charlotte Martin was Page's partner from 1970 to about 1982 or 1983. Page called her "My Lady" and together they had a daughter, Scarlet Page (born in 1971), who is a photographer. > Also during the 1970s, Page had a well-documented, one-year-long "relationship" with "baby groupie" Lori Mattix (also known as... Dennis DeYoung still has an impressive set of pipes, but I’ve always heard that he also has an ego to match and that’s why he was fired from Styx. I realize this is stretching the whole 60s things a bit, but Styx did release their first album in 1972, and he performed professionally before that. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/42 "2019-05-04T22:57:08Z")
ETA II: (Missed the edit deadline) Page has ONE adopted stepchild, and two biological children with that child’s mother. ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/43 "2019-05-04T22:58:57Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > And he has a reputation for claiming “borrowed” material as is own, going back many years before the notorious Graceland allegations. Who else did he steal from? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/44 "2019-05-04T23:51:14Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Tasmanian cartoonist Linzee Arnold illustrates the bus episode: > [http://buddyshabits.blogspot.com/](http://buddyshabits.blogspot.com/) That’s pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/45 "2019-05-04T23:59:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [a famous Buddy Rich rant](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omID1prJHFo) where he just goes off on his musicians on the bus after what he perceived to be a sub-par gig. A few lines from that rant were used in Seinfeld episodes. I believe James Brown had a similar reputation of being hard on his musicians and docking them pay if they played “clams.” Before Buddy Rich and James Brown led their own bands, Benny Goodman was famous for the “death ray,” a stinkeye aimed at musicians after they played crummy solos. Perfectionist bandleaders are always called assholes by their sidemen, but we should probably appreciate their ability to herd “cats.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/46 "2019-05-05T00:11:05Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Before Buddy Rich and James Brown led their own bands, Benny Goodman was famous for the “death ray,” a stinkeye aimed at musicians after they played crummy solos. > > Perfectionist bandleaders are always called assholes by their sidemen, but we should probably appreciate their ability to herd “cats.” No, they’re dicks. Now, mind you, I don’t mind short-tempered people who push you to do your best. I react fine to that sort of treatment. But the people I know who are like that are assholes in general, and it’s not necessary to have this kind of approach to bring the best out of people. So, I just think they’re all assholes. Plus I don’t much like Buddy Rich’s music, so it’s easier for me to pile on him. (I’ve never once cared to hear a song Rich played on, but if you told me Morello was on the skins, I’m all ears.) James Brown is a bit more difficult. He was a bit more “important” in my eyes in musical history than Rich was. Goodman, I don’t know enough about. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/47 "2019-05-05T00:21:06Z")
Listen to Buddy on the trio recordings with Lester Young and Nat King Cole. In a small combo he doesn’t show off his chops so much. IMO, he was one of the top dozen drummers in jazz history. Also, try on some more Benny Goodman. He wasn’t called the King of Swing because he preferred them to the slide and the monkey bars. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/48 "2019-05-05T00:21:33Z")
> [@bionic\_man](#): > > mick Jagger Brian jones was their leader then took over dumped jones., Eh, that one is probably unfair. I mean Jagger probably IS a bit of a jackhole - he is at the very least a compulsive and serial philanderer, which is apparently what killed his marriages. I believe one of his ex’s once commented that he was a pretty good dad, but a shitty husband. But Brian Jones’ ouster [was rather more complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Jones#Estrangement_from_bandmates) than some dictatorial whim of Jagger’s. Basically he alienated everybody. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > It’s no secret that Jimmy Page had a 14-year-old girlfriend for a while, until she turned 15, anyway. I’ve also heard that she was basically a beard - that he’s at least bisexual if not outright gay. He moved on when she was a relatively [ancient 16](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_Mattix), actually ;). And then just to the next groupie in line, Bebe Buell. That she was a beard seems very, _VERY_ unlikely. There are safer ones than a 14 year old kid and more helpfully visible ones than a 14 year-old you’re keeping under tight lock and key for fear you’ll get charged with statutory rape. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/49 "2019-05-05T00:22:42Z")
But I do agree that Buddy was a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/50 "2019-05-05T00:25:29Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > And he has a reputation for claiming “borrowed” material as is own, going back many years before the notorious Graceland allegations. I really didn’t see much of that in the book. Some of the allegations were just bullshit or the product of the (apparently) lifelong spat between him and Garfunkle. Some of the Graceland stuff was also overblown, as he had permission to use the material and was later accused by a member of Ladysmith who felt he should have gotten more money. Simon didn’t always treat people very well, but he really has socialization issues. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/51 "2019-05-05T00:29:50Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Listen to Buddy on the trio recordings with Lester Young and Nat King Cole. In a small combo he doesn’t show off his chops so much. IMO, he was one of the top dozen drummers in jazz history. > > Also, try on some more Benny Goodman. He wasn’t called the King of Swing because he preferred them to the slide and the monkey bars. Rich was mainly a smash and crash drummer with incredible speed and almost no subtlety. I’d take Louis Bellson over Rich any day of the week. [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQWaCLlK9Y) his live solo on Skin Deep. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/52 "2019-05-05T00:35:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Some of the Graceland stuff was also overblown, as he had permission to use the material and was later accused by a member of Ladysmith who felt he should have gotten more money. Are you including Steve Berlin’s [accusations](https://www.stereogum.com/9106/david_byrne_does_paul_simon_the_worlds_biggest_pri/video/) in the same pile? ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/53 "2019-05-05T00:37:25Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > Ginger Baker > > Brilliant drummer and a complete a-hole, then and now. I met him 30+ years ago at a breakfast radio show and he while he wasn’t a complete jerk, but he was arrogant, joking about if I was going to pay for his and his groups breakfast . I got his autograph figuring he’d be the first to go from Cream. Well he fooled me…he’s not only still alive, but he’s still (arguably) the best drummer around! A few months ago I stumbled across “Beware of Mr. Baker” on Netflix. I had heard stories about Ginger Baker before but holy crap, that documentary makes him look like half lunatic and half raging asshole. It’s no wonder Cream didn’t last very long. (Of course, Jack Bruce was no slouch either when it came to being an asshole.) ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/54 "2019-05-05T00:39:08Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Rich was mainly a smash and crash drummer with incredible speed and almost no subtlety. I’d take Louis Bellson over Rich any day of the week. [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQWaCLlK9Y) his live solo on Skin Deep. Bellson, Connie Kay, Max Roach, Sid Catlett, Philly Joe Jones I would put ahead of Buddy Rich. But Buddy is still in my top dozen. Seriously, catch the 1945 sessions with Prez and Nat Cole if you think Buddy couldn’t do subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/55 "2019-05-05T00:53:56Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I had heard stories about Ginger Baker before but holy crap, that documentary makes him look like half lunatic and half raging asshole. This 2013 interview is an [instant classic](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/qa-ginger-baker-on-why-the-rolling-stones-are-not-good-musicians-86521/) :p. In person he must be just about the most insufferably difficult person in the world, especially if you are a journalist. But at a distance his “it-goes-to-11” curmudgeonliness is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/56 "2019-05-05T01:34:07Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Bellson, Connie Kay, Max Roach, Sid Catlett, Philly Joe Jones I would put ahead of Buddy Rich. But Buddy is still in my top dozen. > > Seriously, catch the 1945 sessions with Prez and Nat Cole if you think Buddy couldn’t do subtle. Maybe Buddy Rich could do subtle. [But that wasn’t his style.](https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2007/july/1274941799/richard-cooke/i-got-nothin-you) > [@](#): > > “He was a weird guy. He’s the only musician I’ve ever played with who had to get himself angry to get himself in the mood to play. I remember one time we were playing a ballad at a high school, and he hit the crash cymbal with the butt of his brush so hard he knocked it over. In the middle of a ballad, man!” ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/57 "2019-05-05T01:53:03Z")
“(Rumor has it that just before he passed away, Bruce called Baker on the phone, said “Fuck you, I’m dying,” and hung up.)” [https://musicenthusiast.net/2016/10/30/cream-blues-ancient-and-modern/](https://musicenthusiast.net/2016/10/30/cream-blues-ancient-and-modern/) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/58 "2019-05-05T03:00:51Z")
Another Buddy Rich story, this time illustrated by the great Drew Friedman. It includes the call to Rich’s wife after his death: [![](https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside03.jpg) ](https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside03.jpg) [![](https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside07.jpg) ](https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside07.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/59 "2019-05-05T03:06:08Z")
You truly have to detest someone on the very nextists of levels to draw these things after the man’s death. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433/60 "2019-05-05T03:07:49Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Another Buddy Rich story, this time illustrated by the great Drew Friedman. It includes the call to Rich’s wife after his death: > > [https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside03.jpg](https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside03.jpg) > > [https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside07.jpg](https://showcase.thebluebus.nl/SoundSeptember2013/Flipside07.jpg) Well, there’s a username-post combo if I’ve ever seen one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-musicians-you-dont-like-from-the-60s/833433.md?page=4)