# "10 Reasons Why a Beer if Better than a Black Man"...WTF!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990 "2003-02-27T22:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/1 "2003-02-27T22:25:31Z")
Here’s the cite [http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/01/29/ke012903s357881.htm](http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/01/29/ke012903s357881.htm). Synopsis: Credit card company wants business from students on University of Louisville campus. Soliciters decide to intice students to sign-up by giving out gifts. No problem, right? We’re all familiar with the kind of thing. Like a lot of promoters, they decide to hand out tee-shirts. And it’s a tee-shirt like no other: > [@](#): > > The T-shirt, printed with a list of ‘‘10 Reasons Why a Beer is Better than a Black Man’’ and illustrated with caricatures of a black couple, was one of the items the two offered students during a campus visit Thursday in exchange for applying for the credit card. You may be curious what’s included on the shirt. I know I was: > [@](#): > > The caricatures on the shirt show a black woman drinking a beer with a black man standing in the background. Among the ‘‘10 Reasons’’ cited were: ‘‘A beer can’t get you pregnant’’ and ‘‘A beer doesn’t yell at your kids.’’ A couple of other reasons were sexually suggestive. My vision is blurred right now because of tears of rage. The idea that so-called normal people would even think of distributing something like this–let alone actually do it–makes me hate humanity. Especially when you read something like this: > [@](#): > > "They were basically just blowing me off and telling me I’m silly for finding it offensive,’’ said Brooks, who said he called university administrators to the scene. Because you know what? I know many Dopers are reading this and saying the same thing. They may not post this sentiment, but they’re thinking it. And for them I have a special message: Fuck yall. Fuck all the racists and the bigots that continue to sully the name of this country. Fuck EVERYONE WHO DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHY I’M OFFENDED! I applaud U of L. They got in trouble earlier this year because of some racist foolishness (and maybe that’s why these jerks thought the environment there was conducive for their shit) but they acted swiftly and justly this time. I don’t blame BankOne, even though they should be more aware of how their product is being promoted. I blame FrontLine Event Marketing. I don’t imagine they have very many black people on staff. It’s OBVIOUS they have too many IDIOTS, whatever color they are. And that is all. **monstro** …finished…ranting. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/2 "2003-02-27T22:30:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Because you know what? I know many Dopers are reading this and saying the same thing. They may not post this sentiment, but they’re thinking it. And for them I have a special message: > > Fuck yall. Fuck all the racists and the bigots that continue to sully the name of this country. Fuck EVERYONE WHO DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHY I’M OFFENDED! Well fuck you very much for assuming what I think! I think it is offensive. I agree with you. If you could provide a working link then I could expand on that. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/3 "2003-02-27T22:32:30Z")
[Fixed link](http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/01/29/ke012903s357881.htm) And please don’t assume what I think. It’s offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/4 "2003-02-27T22:33:15Z")
One quick question: Do all of the similar lists out there, “Why cucumbers are better then men”, “Why beer is better than women” without the “black” modifier before man or woman bother you as much? ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/5 "2003-02-27T22:33:41Z")
Meaning that the T-shit is offensive. I’m not particularly offended by you assuming what I might think. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/6 "2003-02-27T22:38:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Well fuck you very much for assuming what I think! \*\* And did **monstro** identify you as one of the Dopers “reading this and saying the same thing”? If not then why the response? You have to know that there are some idiots on this board who do agree with that sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/7 "2003-02-27T22:39:08Z")
OK, it’s offensive. But it ain’t worth having an anurism over. Withdraw the T-shirt and design a new one. The reason why it’s offensive is that it protrays a steriotypical view of blacks, protraying them in a bad light. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/8 "2003-02-27T22:39:27Z")
Why did it have to be a “black man?” Just plain man would be bad enough, if you ask me. I guess drawing caricatures of black people is somehow funnier. It’s just stupid all around. Why would you promote a bank card with a tee-shirt about the superiority of beer to men? Why would you want to take that stupid concept one idiotic and offensive step further and make it black men? It jdoesn’t get me spitting angry, though. It just makes me shake my head in wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/9 "2003-02-27T22:42:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Fuck yall. That would be **Fuck y’all.** The word is short for “you all”; hence the apostrophe. Kind of a pet peeve of mine. I would imagine this particular tee-shirt was originally designed to be worn by black women; the University of Lexington seems an odd setting. Of course, people have a right to wear any tee shirt they want, regardless of how offensive I might find it. I’m just surprised a professional marketing company would be stupid enough to think this was a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/10 "2003-02-27T22:42:41Z")
I see your point **Homebrew** , but it seems that **monstro** is damning those people first without hearing what their viewpoint is. However I over reacted a little, as the comment wasn’t directed at me - I agree about that. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/11 "2003-02-27T22:45:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*One quick question: Do all of the similar lists out there, “Why cucumbers are better then men”, “Why beer is better than women” without the “black” modifier before man or woman bother you as much? \*\* Might I offer the suggestion that the offence of these sorts of jokes varies greatly depending on how far the group in question is from the center of cultural power? Basically, this is not a binary issue; rather it is one that may best be viewed on a spectrum. For example: 10 reasons why beer is better than billionaires=Not offensive because the people targeted have enough power and juice to not be hurt by this. 10 reasons why beer is better than women=more offensive because women are (as a group) less influential in terms political power and influence than are billionaires. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/12 "2003-02-27T22:46:52Z")
It always floors me when some self-righteous pricks sees something that is offensive to a certain group of people being perpetrated by another certain group of people and automatically think that everyone from that second group feels the same way. Now, while I am offended by the t-shirt I am just as offended by the fact that **monstro** thinks that I think like that. It’s called stereotyping asshole and it works both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/13 "2003-02-27T22:56:28Z")
Guys, as I read the OP no one is being lumped anywhere. Rather **monstro** seems to be giving a preemptive “Fuck You” to anyone who can’t understand why this is a big deal in your face serious goddamn issue. Why is that hard to grasp, and (more to the point) why are some of you folks quick to assume that you are the target of this preemptive fuck you? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/14 "2003-02-27T23:04:25Z")
From the link: > [@](#): > > ‘‘I’m outraged. To be embarrassed like this is disgraceful,’’ Jamie Dimon, chairman of Chicago-based Bank One, said yesterday. This response just saved Bank One from losing a credit card customer. Honestly, I found that shirt (with the “Bank One” logo right on the front) so outrageous that if the company had not specifically repudiated it, I was seriously intending to cancel my cards. **Amp:** \*It always floors me when some self-righteous pricks sees something that is offensive to a certain group of people being perpetrated by another certain group of people and automatically think that everyone from that second group feels the same way. […] It’s called stereotyping asshole and it works both ways.\* ?? What “second group” are you suggesting **monstro** was stereotyping? Seems to me that all he said was that he expects “many Dopers” will dismiss his outrage as silly, which is no more than to say that in any large group of people, some of them don’t really care if other people are offended by racism. Seems like a reasonable assumption to me, and certainly doesn’t involve “stereotyping”. Did you read too quickly and imagine that **monstro** was referring specifically to white people? **Wd:** _One quick question: Do all of the similar lists out there, “Why cucumbers are better then men”, “Why beer is better than women” without the “black” modifier before man or woman bother you as much?_ Speaking as a WF, I think all such lists are pretty dumb, but the basic battle-of-the-sexes ones mostly just make me go :rolleyes:. This shirt, on the other hand, makes me go :eek: :mad: :mad:. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/15 "2003-02-27T23:07:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Not offensive because the people targeted have enough power and juice to not be hurt by this. When did this become the standard? Am I now free to call Secretary of State Colin powell a nigger because “he has enough power and juice to not be hurt by this”??? That’s crazy, and one of the reasons I asked my previous question. If the OP is “this kind of thing is offensive, period” than I see where he’s coming from. If it is “This is only offensive because it targets poor, abused black folk”, then I _might_ ( really, more information is needed, why I asked the question) suspect the OP of embracing the cult of victemhood we have going in this country. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/16 "2003-02-27T23:08:04Z")
There are many variants on the theme: 10 reasons why beer is better than women, 10 reasons why a firetruck is better than women-the list goes on and on. Was it tasteless? Yes. Should the OP get their knickers in a bunch over it and assume opinions for the rest of the posters in the land of Dopedom? No. Somehow, society has undergone a perceptual shift (IMHO) such that certain groups can be bashed with impunity, while the most minimal slight towards another brings out a regiment of outrage. Truly, If we’re to be equal, then the past must be left as just that, and our skin, regardless of color should be of equal thickness. I can make a joke about you and you can do the same about me. Who knows the words to Michael row the boat ashore? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/17 "2003-02-27T23:12:57Z")
If they only give this shirt to black women, is it still offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/18 "2003-02-27T23:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*When did this become the standard? Am I now free to call Secretary of State Colin powell a nigger because “he has enough power and juice to not be hurt by this”??? That’s crazy, and one of the reasons I asked my previous question. If the OP is “this kind of thing is offensive, period” than I see where he’s coming from. If it is “This is only offensive because it targets poor, abused black folk”, then I _might_ ( really, more information is needed, why I asked the question) suspect the OP of embracing the cult of victemhood we have going in this country. \*\* I think that it is pretty clear that you deliberately misunderstood the point of my post. The point that I was making was that, in my opinion (it did not “become a standard” because I say so), the how offensive these top 10 list type things are depends on the targeted group and its proximity to the center of power. On that front, please answer the following question: Do you believe that a t-shirt listing the top 10 reasons that cucumbers are better than men is equally offensive as one listing why beer is better than black men? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/19 "2003-02-27T23:26:00Z")
Are some people _looking_ for a reason to get offended here? This is what **monstro** said: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\* > My vision is blurred right now because of tears of rage. The idea that so-called normal people would even think of distributing something like this–let alone actually do it–makes me hate humanity. Especially when you read something like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > "They were basically just blowing me off and telling me I’m silly for finding it offensive,’’ said Brooks, who said he called university administrators to the scene. > > Because you know what? I know many Dopers are reading this and saying the same thing. They may not post this sentiment, but they’re thinking it. And for them I have a special message: > > Fuck yall. Fuck all the racists and the bigots that continue to sully the name of this country. Fuck EVERYONE WHO DOESN’T UNDERSTAND WHY I’M OFFENDED! > \*\* So far there is only one person who **monstro** could have possibly aimed this at based on the posts in this thread and that’s **Weirddave**. P.S. monstro’s a she. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/20 "2003-02-27T23:26:36Z")
Thanks, **Binarydrone** and **Homebrew** for having fourth-grade reading skills. I am referring to the Dopers (or whoever) who don’t understand why this is bothersome. I’m referring to people who think people who are bothered by offensive material like this are over-sensitive whiners. If you don’t fit into either of these two groups, then I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU. > [@](#): > > Do all of the similar lists out there, “Why cucumbers are better then men”, “Why beer is better than women” without the “black” modifier before man or woman bother you as much? I’ve never seen such a list before. Are they common? Are people constantly rating inanimate objects higher than ENTIRE GROUPS OF PEOPLE. And yes, the “black” modifier is bothersome to me, since I’m black and I’m tired of people denigrating black people. Just like gays are tired of people bashing gay people, or Christians are tired of people bashing Christians. If you’re stupid enough to not understand this basic concept, then I feel sorry for you. > [@](#): > > The reason why it’s offensive is that it protrays a steriotypical view of blacks, protraying them in a bad light. It’s also offensive because it’s advertising racism, in a “light-and-hearty” way. I’m not having an anuerism, either. To say that is to belittle my fucking anger. > [@](#): > > That would be Fuck y’all. The word is short for “you all”; hence the apostrophe. Kind of a pet peeve of mine. There is no word “you all”. Correcting slang with slang is a pet peeve of mine. > [@](#): > > It always floors me when some self-righteous pricks sees something that is offensive to a certain group of people being perpetrated by another certain group of people and automatically think that everyone from that second group feels the same way. Where did I assume that? There isn’t even a “second group”? My rant is against FrontLine, not white people. So who’s being a prick? You know what raises my ire? That the people passing out this t-shirt assumed that everyone would love it so much that it would be a “prize”! Hah! That’s what makes me angry. They assumed I’d think it was funny to think a FUCKING BEER is superior to my father or my brother or the nice old man that lives next door to me! And here I am, wondering why I can’t see the humor at all. > [@](#): > > Why is that hard to grasp, and (more to the point) why are some of you folks quick to assume that you are the target of this preemptive fuck you? The people who assumed that I was talking to them didn’t read my post, **BinaryDrone**. They ASSumed things about me and posted accordingly. I apologize for the broken link. [http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/01/29/ke012903s357881.htm](http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/01/29/ke012903s357881.htm) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990.md?page=2)