# "10 Reasons Why a Beer if Better than a Black Man"...WTF!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990 "2003-02-27T22:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/21 "2003-02-27T23:32:22Z")
**dwc:** \*There are many variants on the theme: 10 reasons why beer is better than women, 10 reasons why a firetruck is better than women-the list goes on and on. […] Somehow, society has undergone a perceptual shift (IMHO) such that certain groups can be bashed with impunity, while the most minimal slight towards another brings out a regiment of outrage.\* This is standard anti-PC “woe, we’re being victimized by the PC culture of victimhood” boilerplate, but it is rather undercut by the fact that the similar lists about women you refer to **aren’t** generally seen as outrageous. That contradicts the standard anti-PC shibboleth that women are one of the “protected groups” that can’t be subjected to even “the most minimal slight”. _Was it tasteless? Yes. Should the OP get their knickers in a bunch over it and assume opinions for the rest of the posters in the land of Dopedom? No._ Another person who doesn’t seem to have read the OP very carefully. **monstro** was not assuming opinions for “the rest of the posters”, just the inevitable subset of them who are indifferent to racism. _I can make a joke about you and you can do the same about me._ I’ve got a better idea: how about neither of us makes tasteless, racist jokes about the other? Why the fuck would we **want** to mock somebody on account of their race? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/22 "2003-02-27T23:47:20Z")
First of all, **monstro** , such lists are pretty common. I had to give a speech in a college class, and I actually wrote one called “Why cycling is better than sex” and gave it to the class. I still can’t believe I had the guts to do it. Sample “reason”–You can have more than one bike at the same time and nobody thinks you’re a slut. But you’re correct that the point of such lists is to denigrate something. I guess the point of my list was to criticize judgmental attitudes toward sex. I agree that the shirt was completely offensive. The two “reasons” listed make offensive implications about black families, and the graphic obviously plays on the very stereotypes that Michelle Wallace wrote about 25 years ago in _Black Macho and the Myth of Superwoman_. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/23 "2003-02-27T23:51:28Z")
Count me as offended. Cripes! ---
**Author:** ![Yumanite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/24 "2003-02-27T23:52:05Z")
:eek: 😕 I have to say that I’ve seen those tired jokes about why beer (a cucumber, etc.) is better than a man (woman, whatever). They are dumb, but I can’t say I’m offended by them, because at least they make sense in a stupid jokey sort of way. This shirt, for instance, would not be offensive to me if it didn’t have the word “black” thrown in there (not that I’d be caught dead anywhere near it, mind you). But this is different. “It won’t get you pregnant”, for example, is a comparison between beer and a man. It has nothing to do with skin color. So why the hell??? It’s not even based on a racial stereotype, as far as I can see – how do any of the things listed on that shirt NOT apply to white men or asian men or whatever other kind of men? For some reason, that’s what makes this kind of creepy to me – to take some kind of categorical descriptors which could, I suppose, be applied to all men, and choose to single out a particular type of man, is really weird. And it feels _racist_ to me (white and female, BTW, and there’s not a huge black community around here, so I don’t think I’m being influenced by the desire to rack up victimhood brownie points ). ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/25 "2003-02-28T00:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > There is no word “you all”. Correcting slang with slang is a pet peeve of mine. There is no word “there will” but somehow “there’ll” is a valid contraction… “Fuck you all.” “Fuck y’all.” See how it works? :rolleyes: Back on topic…yeah, it’s offensive. But watch what you’re getting pissy about, as the above should demonstrate. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/26 "2003-02-28T00:05:52Z")
My point, in case anyone missed it, is that anything that classifies people on the basis of any inherent genetic condition for the purposes of stereotyping, be it male, female, black, white etc… is offensive. Saying “well, being offensive to _this_ group is O.K, but doing so to _that_ group is not” is bullshit. People are people, a bunch of individuals, and no predjudice is allowable. It’s not OK to belittle someone “just because they have money and power”. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/27 "2003-02-28T00:10:54Z")
You can flame me all you want, but sometimes I love hearing racist jokes… because they point out how ridiculous racism is. I always look at the intent behind a joke, and I won’t have a fit just because a certain combination of words appears. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/28 "2003-02-28T00:13:01Z")
It’s a kind of interesting concept in a Non-Euclidean sort of way. Starting with the premise that beer is better than black men it naturally follows that Jelly beans are better than Jewish mothers. Naturally it follows that diapers are better than Dutchmen, and brand name soap bought in quantity is superior to Puerto Ricans. Once the Puerto Rican baseline is established, it’s simply a matter of dividing by the square of the difference between cordless drills and ethiopians. This yields us the comparator to establish that a box of SOS pads is superior to Greek Lesbians Once we establish that clean underwear is superior to White boys we’ll be getting somewhere. That might be all we need to figure out what’s better than College Girls gone Wild. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/29 "2003-02-28T00:18:18Z")
Dutchmen. No, diapers! ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/30 "2003-02-28T00:36:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*I am referring to the Dopers (or whoever) who don’t understand why this is bothersome. > > I’m referring to people who think people who are bothered by offensive material like this are over-sensitive whiners. > > If you don’t fit into either of these two groups, then I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU. > \*\* Ah, you would be talking to me! Get over it. Bad taste? Ok, probably. Should people go around putting their company’s logo on shirts w/o approval? No, of course not. It makes the company look foolish. Is this any different than the firetruck, woman, whatever shirts mentioned above? A little bit I suppose, but not to the degree you are making it out to be. I would liken it to the “Beer: Helping white men dance for 500 years” t-shirts, or “Beer: helping ugly people get laid” t-shirt. Your tears of rage comment made me laugh though. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/31 "2003-02-28T00:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SmackFu \* > \*\*If they only give this shirt to black women, is it still offensive? \*\* Methinks they did intend to give the shirt to black women. Didn’t see a matching hood accessory. I haven’t done any market research but first guess would be that black coeds who want a credit card would be a large market. By the way, their web site seems humorous now: [http://www.cdicccc.com/aboutflem.htm](http://www.cdicccc.com/aboutflem.htm) I liked what [uppity-negro.com](http://uppity-negro.com) said: Everyone is outraged. No one is responsible. It’s a modern parable, it is. [/hijack]While googling {I’m using that as a verb now} for FrontLine Event Marketing I found this link: [http://www.bushbymistake.com/free-pic-nude-celeb.htm](http://www.bushbymistake.com/free-pic-nude-celeb.htm) {Admins, this is not what it seems.} Who is the world named this piece of html much less this site? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/32 "2003-02-28T00:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > But watch what you’re getting pissy about, as the above should demonstrate. All that the above demonstrates is that a bunch of people on this thread are nitwits with keyboards. Possibly including you. > [@](#): > > I always look at the intent behind a joke, and I won’t have a fit just because a certain combination of words appears. Well good for you. Good for all those noble stoics who’ve never gotten angry after being denigrated through stereotypes and mockery and racist names. So sorry I can’t be like you in this situation. > [@](#): > > It’s not OK to belittle someone “just because they have money and power”. No, it’s not okay. But it’s foolish to say that all groups are equally harmed by racist behavior. Or that because one group doesn’t get offended, other groups shouldn’t. I don’t drink or party, so I’ve never seen a “list” shirt before, at least not as they relate to groups of people. Can people really sit there and say that a list against black men is no different than one against men in general? Given the history of this country, especially the South (where this incident took place)? Given the difference in power relations between blacks and everyone else in this society? Are people REALLY that…naive? ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/33 "2003-02-28T00:55:33Z")
NinjaChick’s reaction to that shirt: :eek: … :eek: … :mad: … :mad: …😕 Does it bother me? Yes. Very very very very much so. Should a company be allowed to give it out? Yeah, whatever. The same damn ammendment that lets me tell them what fuckheads they are let them put whatever the hell they want on their shirts. Would I look with utter disgust at _anyone_ who I saw wearing that shirt? Hell yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/34 "2003-02-28T00:59:02Z")
When someone starts claiming that they deserve special treatement, my ears go deaf. You deserve treated as an absolute equal to anyone else, nothing more and certainly nothing less. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/35 "2003-02-28T00:59:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AcidKid \* > \*\*[http://www.bushbymistake.com/free-pic-nude-celeb.htm](http://www.bushbymistake.com/free-pic-nude-celeb.htm) > {Admins, this is not what it seems.} > Who is the world named this piece of html much less this site? > [/hijack] \*\* I am guessing that if you go to anything on bushbymistake it goes to that because you can delete parts of it and it still goes to that search engine. ---
**Author:** ![glarGH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/76d3ee/32.png) [@glarGH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glarGH)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/36 "2003-02-28T01:08:39Z")
Those “beer is better than…” lists have been around for a while, here’s a [link](http://www.tobp.com/humor/beerman.shtml) to some. I get a giggle out of these in general, because well, sometimes, its fun to laugh at men, women and beer. Its HELSA NOT COOL to single out one racial group, me thinks tho. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/37 "2003-02-28T01:11:24Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by SmackFu > > If they only give this shirt to black women, is it still offensive? > > Originally posted by Acid Kid > > > [@](#): > > > > Methinks they did intend to give the shirt to black women. Didn’t see a matching hood accessory. I haven’t done any market research but first guess would be that black coeds who want a credit card would be a large market. Call me cynical, but I think both of ya’ll are way off-base. I doubt they were marketing to black women on a predominately-white campus. And if they were marketing to this audience, they are not only racist, but they are stupid. Black women wouldn’t go for this shit. We have a long history of standing by our men. > [@](#): > > Get over it. I wish we had a middle finger smilie. > [@](#): > > Is this any different than the firetruck, woman, whatever shirts mentioned above? A little bit I suppose, but not to the degree you are making it out to be. You are stupid and crazy if you can’t see how singling out black men is different–to the degree that it IS–from singling out firetrucks (!), women, or men in general. > [@](#): > > I would liken it to the “Beer: Helping white men dance for 500 yeas” Are there any shirts that say “10 Reasons Why Rhum Rummer Doesn’t Get It”? I may be in the market for one. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/38 "2003-02-28T01:13:50Z")
Wah! Someone hurt my feelings, with, a t-shirt! Boohoohoo. Get real. It’s a t-shirt for Christ’s sake. I’m sick and tired of people who take offence to every little thing in this world. Grow-up, a t-shirt can’t hurt you. If you don’t like it, don’t read it, don’t sign up for the credit card, don’t go to that school, whatever. Just stop berating us with your whiney-ass holier-than-thou crap. As for your “special message,” bite me. Fuck you. Fuck all of you piece of shit cry-babies who can’t see/hear/read something they don’t like without attributing it to racism or bigotry or homophobia or any other reason. Maybe someone just found the shirt to be funny. Did you think of that? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/39 "2003-02-28T01:22:09Z")
The only thing even _remotely_ resembling an excuse for that T-shirt that I can come up with is that there’s a big difference between black women saying snide things about black men, in the overall context of the black community, (which I believe this T-shirt was intended to be) and white people saying truly degrading things about black men (which is what I assumed, upon reading the thread title, the list was). Any scenario which involves no real racism involves **appallingly** bad judgment. (I mean, suppose you came up with a product which was small, dark-colored, and accurately described by the acronym SAMBO. It would still obviously be hideously stupid to call your product “Little Black SAMBO”, because that’s a horribly charged phrase, even if you intend it to be understood in another context.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/40 "2003-02-28T01:24:17Z")
**Wd:** _When someone starts claiming that they deserve special treatement, my ears go deaf._ Who’s claiming that anybody deserves special treatment? Is anyone here trying to justify racist “Why is Better than a White Man” or “Why is Better than an Asian Man” T-shirts? No. All **monstro** is saying is that just because you personally might happen not to be seriously offended by a racist “Why is Better than a [Your Ethnic Group] Man” T-shirt **doesn’t give you the right to say that she shouldn’t be offended by this one.** You’re not offended by racism directed at your racial group? You take racist jokes in your stride? You don’t get upset about it? You don’t think it’s a big deal? Okay, fine for you. But why the hell are you using somebody else’s complaints about racism that **does** offend them as an occasion to brag about your own equanimity? I can just see **Rhum Rhunner** and **Blalron** and **akennett** now, standing around when somebody else accidentally gets a heavy box dropped on their foot and starts to cuss and cry with the pain: “You know, I don’t think having a box dropped on my foot is all that bad.” “Yeah, it’s annoying, but I don’t think it’s worth getting your knickers in a bunch about.” “I prefer to look at the physical cause that made the box fall, instead of having a fit just because it hit my foot.” “Why are you getting so upset? Just get over it.” “Your tears of pain do make me laugh, though.” “Get real. It wasn’t such a big deal, just grow up.” Sorry folks, but your self-congratulatory back-patting is not making as good an impression as you may imagine. You don’t look like a serenely wise person capable of transcending life’s petty injustices: you just look like an unsympathetic, egotistical jerk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990.md?page=3)