# "10 Reasons Why a Beer if Better than a Black Man"...WTF!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990 "2003-02-27T22:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/61 "2003-02-28T02:54:11Z")
Hey, I’m a huge advocate of racial equality and I admit that I found the shirt funny as hell. You know why? Because I didn’t read anything into it. If you consider the black race in grandiose historical terms, yes, there’s a lot to get offended about. But seriously, people, take the damn thing at face value! It’s not meant to be overtly racist! Yes, it’s in poor taste. But beer is OBVIOUSLY not better than black men. And no one _actually_ thinks so. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/62 "2003-02-28T02:56:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*This just isn’t true. I can think of a million scenarios where saying something to one person will justifiably elicit a totally different response from them than from another person. > > If I call George W. the President an idiot to his face, he’d probably smirk and say a snappy comeback. > > If I call George W. the retarded child in the special education class an idiot to his face, he’d probably cry and tell the teacher. > > Is the latter case overreacting? Is the former underreacting? Or should the two be analyzed individually, with a bit of understanding. Like, maybe the President has just as many people telling him he’s smart. He has all of his accomplishments to back him up just in case he has doubts. And like, maybe the retarded child has been put down his whole life and he’s plain sick of being the butt of everyone’s jokes. \*\* So in response to my statements about generally classifying groups of people based on race, sex, et, you offer an anecdote about insulting an individual? Try again, on topic this time. ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/63 "2003-02-28T02:56:31Z")
Oh, I meant to add that part of the reason I found it amusing was that they compared beer to “black men” instead of just “men”. It’s simply ridiculous and laughable. Sheesh, if you can’t make fun of this company’s pathetic idea of a promotion, what can you make fun about?? ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/64 "2003-02-28T02:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > \*\*The reason why it feels racist is because it is. The sentiments on that shirt are based on stereotypes specific to black men and black women. The shirt is critical of the whole black community. Let me try to explain: > \ > “Beer won’t yell at your kids.” This implies that the black man is not the kids’ father–otherwise, the phrasing would probably be “yell at the kids.” This statement plays on the idea that black women have multiple kids by multiple men. > > “Beer won’t get you pregnant.” This plays on the idea that black women are likely to have unwanted pregnancies and that black people don’t use birth control. Obviously, a man of any color won’t get you pregnant if you use birth control (occasional mishaps aside). So this only works within the stereotype of black people not being in control of their fertility. \*\* Oh for fuck’s sake, that it the most strained reading of anything I have ever seen. “Beer won’t get you pregnant” = black women have babies with different fathers and aren’t in control of their own fertility? Beer won’t yell at your kids = the man isn’t the father? No. Fucking. Way. I think you are reading the language, and missing language, just a liiiiiiiitle bit too closely there gumshoe. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/65 "2003-02-28T02:57:29Z")
Hmm, **Rhum** I’d hoped it was obvious that I was joking. Or maybe you just reverse wooshed me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/66 "2003-02-28T03:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*Hmm, **Rhum** I’d hoped it was obvious that I was joking. Or maybe you just reverse wooshed me. 🙂 \*\* Reverse woosh, yeah, that’s what it was. Sure. :o 😉 Lymph of wrath does have a nice Steinbeckian quality about it though, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/67 "2003-02-28T03:03:34Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not meant to be overtly racist! If this isn’t an overtly racist T-shirt, what would an overtly racist T-shirt look like? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/68 "2003-02-28T03:08:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\*…please answer the following question: Do you believe that a t-shirt listing the top 10 reasons that cucumbers are better than men is equally offensive as one listing why beer is better than black men? \*\* **Weirddave** , I am still waiting for your answer to this question. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_The\_Diver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Buck\_The\_Diver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_The_Diver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/69 "2003-02-28T03:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\*Eh gads, first tears of rage, now phlegm of fury. What’s next, lymph of wrath? \*\* The bile of apathy oozes from my every orifice. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/70 "2003-02-28T03:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > So in response to my statements about generally classifying groups of people based on race, sex, et, you offer an anecdote about insulting an individual? I was challenging your foolish statement that offense is offense no matter the context. I was breaking it down for you since you seem to have difficulty grasping this fairly basic concept. I see you need further hand-holding. Too bad I don’t have any more patience. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/71 "2003-02-28T03:15:57Z")
No, **RhumRunner**. It isn’t a “strained” reading. It is a reading by a trained historian. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/72 "2003-02-28T03:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > **Are you saying that Anita Hill should have “stood by” Clarence Thomas?** No, and neither am I saying that I believe or assert that that is monstro’s opinion. I did not think sidetracking was helpful to the point I was trying to make. “there were significant gender and racial gaps in the public response to this event. Whereas 63 percent of men believed Thomas, only 49 percent of women did. Seventy percent of blacks at the time of the hearings believed Thomas that he had not sexually harassed Anita Hill” From: [http://www.insidepolitics.org/ps111/coveringrace.html](http://www.insidepolitics.org/ps111/coveringrace.html) " Many people in the African American community resented Hill for “airing our dirty laundry in public.” They believed that Hill broke what Charles Lawrence describes as the “unwritten code of silence.” This unwritten code prohibits the reporting of African American male violence against African American females, and it keeps the “intra-community oppression of [African American] women suppressed.” From: [http://www.arte-sana.com/articles/plight\_black\_women\_article.htm](http://www.arte-sana.com/articles/plight_black_women_article.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/73 "2003-02-28T03:25:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > Why? In order to be “helpful”, I have to pretend I don’t belong to any particular group? Would you prefer I say “my community” instead? The fact that you refer to “your people” and that you are all upset to the degree that you are about this says, to me, that you are far more bound up in the idea of race than are most people. To me the ‘community’ is the people you live and work with, friends neighbors etc. I wouldn’t define my community in terms of race, but given your posts here I’m not surprised that you do. If I were ever to use the phrase “my people” I suppose it would have to refer to Americans, I can’t imagine ever calling white America “my people” or “my community.” But if you want to continue to define yourself by the color of your skin, that’s your problem, not mine. > [@](#): > > Just knowing that this company thought people would find the shirts so adorable that they would accept them as gifts suggests to me that there may be more people who think this is “ok” than not. Hell, look at this thread. Look at your own responses. You don’t even think it’s that bad. I guess you’re right, I don’t think it is that bad. I can look at this t-shirt, laugh a little bit at the jokes and whatnot and move on. In the same way I can look at red-neck t-shirts without suddenly believing that all our southern dopers live in vans, down by the river. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/74 "2003-02-28T03:25:21Z")
Wow. Did that sound snotty or what? Sorry. I come at this kind of thing from an academic perspective. We read the subtext and put things in historical perspective. I’ll stand by my reading. (and I’m still laughing at your “gumshoe” comment.) ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/75 "2003-02-28T03:27:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaxTheVool \* > \*\*… > (Do we know for certain whether the college at which it was being sold was primarily white?) \*\* African-american enrollment at the University of Louisville was around 16% in 2000. No one I know of here was particularly amused by this incident. [Bank One has apologized.](http://www.louisville.edu/update/) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/76 "2003-02-28T03:28:21Z")
Thanks for the cites, **AcidKid**. I see what you’re saying. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/77 "2003-02-28T03:32:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > > > [@](#): > > > > …please answer the following question: Do you believe that a t-shirt listing the top 10 reasons that cucumbers are better than men is equally offensive as one listing why beer is better than black men? > > \*\ ***Weirddave** , I am still waiting for your answer to this question. \*\* Well, since reading comprehension dosen’t seem to be your strong suit ( I said-“anything that classifies people on the basis of any inherent genetic condition for the purposes of stereotyping, be it male, female, black, white etc… is offensive.”) I’ll put it in one sylable words: Y-e-s. Yes. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by monstro > I was challenging your foolish statement that offense is offense no matter the context. I was breaking it down for you since you seem to have difficulty grasping this fairly basic concept. > > I see you need further hand-holding. Too bad I don’t have any more patience. Sit down a minute while I hold your hand, toots. I never said that offense is offense no matter the context. I said ( try to read it this time, and not read what you want to see ): > [@](#): > > anything that classifies people on the basis of any inherent genetic condition for the purposes of stereotyping, be it male, female, black, white etc… is offensive. Got it, or do you need to attend reading comprehension school with Bianarydrone? ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/78 "2003-02-28T03:50:42Z")
**Green Bean** The list of top ten reasons beer is better than a man has been around for a long time, and I have no doubt was not penned with any particular race in general. Here is a [link](http://www.theparticle.com/fun/fun.php?topic=men-women) to a whole bunch of other “lists.” (Someone may have posted this, but I didn’t see it again in a quick review of the thread) Anyway, [Why is ice cream better than a man? It may make you fat but it won’t make you pregnant.](http://www.theparticle.com/fun/fun.php?topic=men-women&id=1765) (Insert the word black and this becomes a play on obesity amoung black women?) [Why is a modem better than a woman? It doesn’t ask for a commitment if you use it.](http://www.theparticle.com/fun/fun.php?topic=men-women&id=1768) (Insert the word black and this becomes a play on the lack of stable relationships in the black community?) It goes on, but I don’t think that adding black to these statements all of a sudden makes them a sophisticated and multi-layered commentary on the socioeconomic status of modern black people in America. But, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/79 "2003-02-28T04:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that you refer to “your people” and that you are all upset to the degree that you are about this says, to me, that you are far more bound up in the idea of race than are most people. Believe me. If you lived your whole life with everyone reminding you in subtle and not-so-subtle ways that you don’t belong, then you tend to feel some comaradie with people who are like you. For me, I find kinship with black Americans in general, just because we share a common culture and history and because I “belong” when I’m with other black people. Black people are my “people”. I don’t exclude others; in fact, at this point in my life, most of my friends and associates are whites. I care about them. I care about the physical community that I live in. And I also care about the cultural community of which I’m a member. I don’t have a hiearchy of caring that places blacks above all others, but black people DO hold a special place in my heart. > [@](#): > > To me the ‘community’ is the people you live and work with, friends neighbors etc. Yes, this is a definition of community. But this isn’t the only definition, nor the best one. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t define my community in terms of race, but given your posts here I’m not surprised that you do. What if I told you I’m not surprised that you do not understand why a black person would feel a connection with other black people? What if I told you I’m surprised that you’re trying to make me out to be some bad person simply for saying I belong to a group? > [@](#): > > I can’t imagine ever calling white America “my people” or “my community.” Well good for you! How enlightened you must be! Tell me. Do you have a problem with gay people referring to the “gay community”? Christians referring to the “Christian community”? Do you roll your eyes when the newscaster refers to the “Arab-American community”? Do you think these things actually exist, or do you think people make them up just to make everyone else feel excluded? I’m sure if the country was 70% black, 12% white, you’d be singing a different tune. > [@](#): > > But if you want to continue to define yourself by the color of your skin, that’s your problem, not mine. Ah, get off the soapbox and stop preaching at me! I don’t define myself by the color of my skin. Nothing I’ve posted in this thread or elsewhere on this board would indicate that I do. > [@](#): > > In the same way I can look at red-neck t-shirts without suddenly believing that all our southern dopers live in vans, down by the river. Rednecks are white people who behave a certain way. Black people are born a certain way. It’s not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990/80 "2003-02-28T04:05:59Z")
So I guess I was just imagining that you said this, **Weirddave**? > [@](#): > > The offensive statement is offensive by nature reguardless of who it is aimed at, and as such is wrong, period. Please tell me how this differs much from “offense is offense no matter the context”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/10-reasons-why-a-beer-if-better-than-a-black-man-wtf/157990.md?page=5)