# 11/22/63 - Stephen King Novel \[SPOILERS\]
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [December 1, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700 "2011-12-01T14:29:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/101 "2012-01-26T04:37:59Z")
> [@Skammer](#):
>
> I think your daughter is right about Sadie. It’s not so much that “George” uses strange sayings and sings songs no one else knows; it’s that he obviously has secrets that he’s not telling her. And like she said, she already had one husband who put a barrier (the broom) between them and she’s not going to fall for that again.
Good point.
I’m finished, and all I really have to say is I’m glad it’s over. Maybe I wouldn’t feel so dissatisfied if I hadn’t read spoilers. But I’ve spoiled myself with other books without feeling so “meh”.
Also, if I hadn’t read _Replay_, I might have appreciated it more. IMHO Grimwood did it better, in fewer pages, and with more heart.
Next up is something by Judith Guest – forgot the title, haven’t read her before. I’m almost finished with the 40 from last fall’s library sale.
---
### Author:  [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/102 "2012-01-26T15:52:06Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> Nope, although I was born long after that date, and it’s not a catchy number like 9/11. But the book cover does have helpful artwork that makes it obvious.
You weren’t familiar with that as the date of the Kennedy Assassination? I’m younger than you and of course I know about that, it’s such a huge piece of American history.
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/103 "2012-01-26T16:50:58Z")
Before this book, I couldn’t have told you the date of Kennedy’s assassination, like (I suspect) a lot of people who aren’t US American.
---
### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/104 "2012-01-26T18:17:50Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> I also thought all the precaution over making sure Oswald was the lone gunman was silly. Kill him when convenient. Fast forward. If you were wrong, just go back. Save yourself several years.
Oswald was in Russia until 1962. By the time he was back in America, Jake wasn’t sure if he wanted to go back or stay with Sadie.
---
### Author:  [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/105 "2012-01-26T18:31:33Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#):
>
> Before this book, I couldn’t have told you the date of Kennedy’s assassination, like (I suspect) a lot of people who aren’t US American.
The question was asked of Americans.
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [January 26, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/106 "2012-01-26T20:25:31Z")
Oh - never mind then. I thought we were talking about how well-known the date was generally.
---
### Author:  [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/107 "2012-01-28T17:42:55Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#):
>
> So far, the only thing that didn’t ring true was Sadie’s reason for leaving Jake – because he sang a raunchy song and used phrases she wasn’t familiar with. I mentioned this to my daughter and she said I should remember that Sadie was already paranoid because of her weird husband, so she was gonna be naturally distrustful when Jake acted “weird”. That made me feel a little bit better about it.
Jake’s weirdness is one of the things that bugged me. Though it was no doubt an artifact of King starting the book in 1972 and not finishing it for 40 years.
He was born in 1976 and knows all the lyrics to a Rolling Stones song that was released when his parents were teenagers. And he regularly used “disco” slang, which is what twinged Sadie’s weird meter in the first place. That all makes sense if the “present” is 1972, but shouldn’t Jake be using early 90s slang and singing Pearl Jam?
And how would he help Al? Al is four years old when Jake lands in the Land of Ago.
ETA: About the date. I don’t think any American should be able to just _know_ what happened on 11/22/63 (that’s 18 years before my birth after all). But if someone leads with “It has something to do with the President,” Kennedy’s assassination should leap out at you.
---
### Author:  [@HotDogWater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HotDogWater)
#### Post date: [January 28, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/108 "2012-01-28T19:56:58Z")
On my second reading, I just got back to George and Sadie’s first meeting. Not love at first sight, our narrator tells us? Thats BS…she fell into his arms!
---
### Author:  [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/109 "2012-01-29T21:17:53Z")
Phew, 30 CDs. I’m done and I loved it. But four stars out of five because the espionage and some the time in Jodie dragged more than it should have (the let’s-put-on-a-show bored the bejezus out of me the first time, but _twice_? :rolleyes:). Also, I thought Sadie was an extraordinarily dull character and the romance less than electrifying. Certainly not worth fucking up the entire space/time continuum.
I loved going back to the late 50s/early 60s with a 2011 sensibility, though, and I thought the time in Derry was the strongest most engaging part of the book.
…oh, and no way was Jake born in 1976. He was Stephen King’s age through and through.
---
### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/110 "2012-01-30T00:15:27Z")
Just finished it–I wanted to avoid this thread till then. Enjoyed it, but boy could it have used a bit of trimming and editing!
I gave up on Stephen King 30 years ago, after \*Cujo \*and _Christine_; that’s when I threw my hands up and said “enough.” When I read that this wasn’t his usual monster gore-fest, I put it on reserve at the library (so I have no idea who Ritchie and Bev and turtles were in his other books–I have read _It_, but Elinor Glyn’s _It_, not Stephen King’s!).
I agree with others here: the love story is what really sold it, and the Card Men and the Time Rips and Jimla were just kind of silly. King can really create 3-dimensional characters who stay with you after you close the book–really, on a par with Christopher Morley, Olive Higgins Prouty and Booth (“Amberson!”) Tarkington, and there is no higher compliment. I would love to see him just write a love story or a family saga \*without \*the blood and gore and monsters.
And drop the lame attempts at humor. His few jokes and wisecracks in this book thudded like “unfunny uncle at dinner party” humor.
---
### Author:  [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/111 "2012-01-30T14:32:56Z")
For those who liked this book, specifically the time travel aspect, I recommend [Replay](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068816112X/) by Ken Grimwood, which was recommended to me in another discussion of 11/22/63.
---
### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/112 "2012-01-30T14:41:15Z")
> [@phungi](#):
>
> For those who liked this book, specifically the time travel aspect, I recommend [Replay](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068816112X/) by Ken Grimwood, which was recommended to me in another discussion of 11/22/63.
I also highly recommend \*anything \*by Jack Finney (as does Stephen King, in his Afterword). I usually hate time-travel nonsense, but Finney invariably captures me.
---
### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/113 "2012-01-30T14:46:44Z")
> [@phungi](#):
>
> For those who liked this book, specifically the time travel aspect, I recommend [Replay](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068816112X/) by Ken Grimwood, which was recommended to me in another discussion of 11/22/63.
> [@Eve](#):
>
> I also highly recommend \*anything \*by Jack Finney (as does Stephen King, in his Afterword). I usually hate time-travel nonsense, but Finney invariably captures me.
Thanks for these recommendations. A few years ago I went on a time travel/alternate history binge, but I’m not sure I read either of these two so I’ll check them out.
---
### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2012, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/114 "2012-02-04T04:47:55Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#):
>
> Yes, it’s suggested that the term refers to _The Sound of Thunder._
Actually, and I may not remember it correctly, but the “butterfly effect” is first brought up by Al and is not attributed to Bradbury. Bradbury’s story comes up much later, is brought up by Sadie, and is just used to illustrate the effect.
---
### Author:  [@HaiJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HaiJJ)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/115 "2012-02-10T01:03:54Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> Just finished it–I wanted to avoid this thread till then. Enjoyed it, but boy could it have used a bit of trimming and editing!
>
> I gave up on Stephen King 30 years ago, after \*Cujo \*and _Christine_; that’s when I threw my hands up and said “enough.” When I read that this wasn’t his usual monster gore-fest, I put it on reserve at the library (so I have no idea who Ritchie and Bev and turtles were in his other books–I have read _It_, but Elinor Glyn’s _It_, not Stephen King’s!).
>
> I agree with others here: the love story is what really sold it, and the Card Men and the Time Rips and Jimla were just kind of silly. King can really create 3-dimensional characters who stay with you after you close the book–really, on a par with Christopher Morley, Olive Higgins Prouty and Booth (“Amberson!”) Tarkington, and there is no higher compliment. I would love to see him just write a love story or a family saga \*without \*the blood and gore and monsters.
>
> And drop the lame attempts at humor. His few jokes and wisecracks in this book thudded like “unfunny uncle at dinner party” humor.
I agree with your post… And pretty much agree with everyone else’s on this thread (excluding the thing about people not knowing the date… Or at least being able to figure it out). This is the third King book I’ve read. The others were the stand (also a pretty good length book) and the green mile. What I notice about King’s books is that he is masterful at building up a moment, building up the story, creating characters who could actually exist - he makes them real.
But, I think that his greatest assets in writing also work against him at times. For instance, I felt that this story had so much build up that the ending seemed anti-climatic. Out of the 840 or so pages only 100 were left to conclude the novel. I mean it wasn’t until around the 740’s that Oswald was killed. And it seems that’s where/when King starts wrapping up the tale. But in building up the story so much he creates too many loose ends to tie up in a little over one hundred pages.
And sometimes he creates characters, that while good, are unnecessary. In this story I could have done without the yellow/orange/black and green card men. What did they really bring to the story except confusion. They didn’t seem to know what was going on and didn’t really offer much insight. Their purpose seemed to be to direct Jake/George to the conclusion that he couldn’t be in the past with Sadie. A conclusion that Jake/George could have reached on his own after visiting the future where JFK lived.
Other thoughts…
I am thankful that King’s son changed the ending. If you go to King’s website he released the original ending that he wrote there. I haven’t read it, but read about it. I think it sounds worse.
I really wanted Jake and Sadie to be together and I guess they were sort of at the end… But I felt sad with the way it ended.
Overall, it was pretty good, just wish the ending had more to it.
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/116 "2012-02-10T01:47:43Z")
I’m not sure if the Yellow Card Man really added anything to the story, either. He wasn’t really explained, and as you said, **HaiJJ** , Jake would have figured out on his own that JFK living really messed things up. I keep thinking that the Yellow Card Man (Men, I guess) were related to the Breakers and Beams from other books, but I’m not entirely sure how.
---
### Author:  [@HaiJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HaiJJ)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/117 "2012-02-10T04:32:57Z")
I think I might have to get It and The Dark Tower to see if they clear up that issue more… I’m not really a big fan of horror / sci fi, but the cross reference early in the book to the two kids from it and also the couple of references to the turtle (which I had to look up online, because I knew nothing about the turtle reference) make me curious. And then you, Cat Whisperer, and others keep mentioning the beakers and beams. Makes me wonder, but then on the other hand I’m not sure I want to ruin my understanding of the book as is…
One thing that I forgot to ask is if anyone else noticed the numbers over the passages in the book. They reset in each chapter… Wasn’t sure if that was just some literary device or if it meant something in the book that I overlooked / didn’t notice.
---
### Author:  [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/118 "2012-02-10T05:18:04Z")
While there’s a few little connections to the Dark Tower series, I don’t think there’s anything that would clear anything up. They’re more little little easter eggs.
---
### Author:  [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/119 "2012-02-10T05:31:24Z")
Reading “It” and The Dark Tower series is a good idea even if it doesn’t clear everything up. I’d throw in “The Talisman” and “Black House” while you’re at it, as well as “Hearts in Atlantis.” I think Breakers and The Beams show up in all of these.
---
### Author:  [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700/120 "2012-02-10T15:12:03Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#):
>
> I agree, I’m a fan of his early stuff but I haven’t been reading him on a regular basis in a long time. However, the idea of a 1000 page time travel novel was so totally delicious that I decided to read it over the long Thanksgiving weekend.
>
> Like I had hoped, I couldn’t put it down. it did not disappoint.
>
> Spoilers follow
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> I did find one section a little draggy…about 2/3rds of the way in, after his first break-up with Sadie. This is the section where he is living near Lee and Marina to run survellience on them and I think George Amberson’s depression and restlessness sort of rubbed off on me…but the book picked back up when he patched things up with Sadie.
>
> I also didn’t feel that he “Jimla” story line was filled out completely…with all the creepy woo surrounding the “Jimla”, I was rather expecting Jim LaDue - and Amberson’s intervention in LaDue’s timeline- to have played some sort of part in the history that created the dysfunctional 2011…(like LaDue being cast as the not-so-bright born again reformed alcoholic-president in the year 2000 or something). well, THAT might be a touch “on the nose”. But I do feel that he was hinting throughout the book that LaDue’s timeline and his interactions with Amberson had a special significance but there wasn’t any follow-through.
>
> And THAT is the only criticism I have of a 1000 page novel, it was one of the best books I’ve read in a while. I’ll have to go back and check out some of the Stephen King novels that I’ve missed, some of them may be worth another look.
>
> And obdurate is my new favorite word.
I think I came away with the same feeling you did. I had the audiobook, and even though it was 30 (!) CDs, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I did however come away feeling a bit cheated / unfulfilled with the JimLa thing. Not only did it get repeated on a couple of various occasions, he even went so far as to pretty dramatically REINFORCE it during the HS football scene, and AGAIN when he’s hanging out in Dallas/Ft. Worth. Ultimately, it seems like it was all foreshadowing and no payoff.
I found myself thinking “Is the bum one of the high school kids who’s been inadvertently thrown off-kilter by Jake’s intervention? Oh look, he busted the kids from drinking at the dance, including Jim LaDue… I bet THAT’s important. And they talk about his college scholarship to Alabama! Wonder what this payoff will be.”
Then the character basically gets dropped, and at the end when they explain why Jake’s called JimLa… well they really _don’t_.
I also would have liked to see a bit more of the dystopia after he fouled everything up. We’re teased with that… 50 years of everything going all-to-shit is summed up in, what, one page?
All that nitpickery aside, I’d happily and frequently recommend/lend the (audio)book to anyone so inclined 🙂
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700.md?page=5)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-22-63-stephen-king-novel-spoilers/604700.md?page=7)