# 11 Angry Men (and one atheist) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807 "2012-06-01T18:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/1 "2012-06-01T18:57:40Z")
I read this about the John Edwards jury today: > [@](#): > > On NBC, jury foreman David Recchion said the jury “had emotions” and worked hard. “Each day was a new day. We actually prayed together as a group. We’d finish the day and challenge ourselves every bit of the day.” And I thought, _yikes_. I mean, when I’m at someone’s house for dinner, or at a restaurant, and they want to say grace or pray, of course, I just politely lower my eyes and silently sing Andrews Sisters songs to myself or recite limericks. But I honestly don’t know \*what \*I would do if I were in a room with 11 other people and we had to make a difficult decision based on evidence and they all said “let’s join hands and ask God what to do.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/2 "2012-06-01T19:28:49Z")
“We’re sorry – the Deity you dialed is not in service at this time. Please hang up and pray again.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/3 "2012-06-01T19:30:32Z")
I’m with you, **Eve**. I’d probably say, “I’m not comfortable with that. You guys go ahead.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/4 "2012-06-01T20:03:34Z")
No, not praying with the other jurors. Sorry, I’m just not religious. But you guys go ahead without me. [I’ll have to rely on my atheistic morality to guide me. Poor, poor pitiful me.] ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/5 "2012-06-01T20:06:22Z")
Even though I’m _not_ an atheist, and pray often, I would not be comfortable praying in that context with a bunch of strangers I don’t know from Adam. I might just suggest a moment of silence instead if folks wanted to pray privately. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/6 "2012-06-01T20:15:09Z")
Of course it \*is \*entirely possible that jury foreman David Recchion said, “Is everyone here a Christian, and is it OK if we join hands and pray? Would that make anyone uncomfortable?” I hope that \*is \*how it went. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/7 "2012-06-01T20:26:17Z")
I’ve been in hospital waiting rooms where people asked me to join hands with them and their family or group as they prayed and I usually did the Andrews Sisters limerick route as well (“Patty, Laverne, and Maxine/Between them had no Vaseline…”) because it wasn’t the time to make a religious statement, and of course at public sporting events and graduations I close my eyes and think of Hugh Grant, but I don’t think I would in a jury. If I thought for a moment that my failure to pray with them influenced them to vote against me I’d absolutely report it to whoever was appropriate (the court, the party I favored, the media, Marisa Tomei, whoever). Somebody with the rights should really update _Twelve Angry Men_ because there are so many more ways that play can go now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/8 "2012-06-01T20:57:27Z")
To me, the idea of pretending to pray with strangers seems even more awkward than the idea of saying no to 11 other people who want to pray. I probably wouldn’t volunteer that I’m a nonbeliever unless I were asked, but I’d say something like “No thanks, but you go ahead.” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/9 "2012-06-01T21:41:27Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > But I honestly don’t know \*what \*I would do if I were in a room with 11 other people and we had to make a difficult decision based on evidence and they all said “let’s join hands and ask God what to do.” I would probably just refrain from joining them, and I wouldn’t do the hand-holdie thing. However, I doubt that they would characterize what they’re doing as asking God what to do. Most Christians I know would do it more indirectly, like asking God to grant them wisdom to decide the case correctly. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/10 "2012-06-01T21:46:41Z")
I am not sure that this counts as a debate. We’ll try IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/11 "2012-06-01T21:48:33Z")
I am a believer and I generally withdraw when someone tries to get a prayer going at a totally secular event. The presumption that everyone in the rooom is another Evangelical Christian is more than a bit off-putting. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/12 "2012-06-01T22:31:38Z")
I’m just hoping they were doing a Tebow-esque, “please O lord, gird up our loins so that we don’t pull a fallopian when we hand in our verdict,” sort of thing, and less a Python-esque “'e done it – it’s a fair cop, but society is to blame,” sort of beseeching. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/13 "2012-06-01T23:55:57Z")
“OK guys, I’ll join you this one time. But if we’re still deadlocked we try my way: paint ourselves with blue woad and sacrifice a virgin in an oak grove at midnight.” ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/14 "2012-06-02T00:02:56Z")
I don’t join hands …ever, even if it isn’t a prayer. If it is a prayer I don’t try to fool anyone into thinking I am a part of it. I do try not to laugh out loud but in a situation with a jury I’m afraid that’s exactly what I would do. If we don’t have enough facts to convict, you vote not-guilty. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/15 "2012-06-02T00:24:28Z")
What exactly were they praying for . . . the wisdom to come to a unanimous and just decision? We see how that worked for them. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/16 "2012-06-02T03:36:00Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Even though I’m _not_ an atheist, and pray often, I would not be comfortable praying in that context with a bunch of strangers I don’t know from Adam. I might just suggest a moment of silence instead if folks wanted to pray privately. This is where I’d be too. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/17 "2012-06-02T03:46:08Z")
People who want to join hands with me make my butt itch. So I gotta scratch it before holding hands with someone. Well, I do this in my imagination, anyway. In reality, I generally won’t join hands for prayer. Someone wants to shake hands? I’m good with that. Hugs? Yeah, I’ll probably hug. But I’m not going to participate in group prayer. I’m not going to scream and make a big fuss, unless someone grabs my hands (and yes, this has happened), but I’m not going to pretend to pray, either. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/18 "2012-06-02T03:48:04Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > But I honestly don’t know \*what \*I would do if I were in a room with 11 other people and we had to make a difficult decision based on evidence and they all said “let’s join hands and ask God what to do.” 1. A room full of heads bowed in prayer 2. Ventriloquism 3. Fun! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/19 "2012-06-02T03:57:43Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’m with you, **Eve**. I’d probably say, “I’m not comfortable with that. You guys go ahead.” > [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, not praying with the other jurors. Sorry, I’m just not religious. But you guys go ahead without me. [I’ll have to rely on my atheistic morality to guide me. Poor, poor pitiful me.] That about sums it up for me. I might, however, offer to kill a chicken and read its entrails. > [@Eve](#): > > Of course it \*is \*entirely possible that jury foreman David Recchion said, “Is everyone here a Christian, and is it OK if we join hands and pray? Would that make anyone uncomfortable?” I hope that \*is \*how it went. I seriously doubt it went that way. Where I grew up, it’s just assumed you’re a devout Christian who will pray with others at the drop of a hat. I imagine it’s the same there. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/20 "2012-06-02T04:06:28Z")
What I wouldn’t do for a prayer rug and some knowledge of Arabic at that moment. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807.md?page=2)