# 11 Angry Men (and one atheist) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 1, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807 "2012-06-01T18:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/41 "2012-06-03T19:02:43Z")
FYI, [I started another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15128380#post15128380) inspired by this one, about the implications of invoking God and religion during jury deliberations when not all the jurors are comfortable with it. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/42 "2012-06-03T19:10:23Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > FYI, [I started another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15128380#post15128380) inspired by this one, about the implications of invoking God and religion during jury deliberations when not all the jurors are comfortable with it. I’m . . . flattered, I guess . . . but aren’t they the exact same identical topic? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/43 "2012-06-03T19:15:53Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > So give us your defence of trial by ordeal. Im not defending Christianity; Im mocking atheism which is just as corrupt and far more bloody than Christianity ever was. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/44 "2012-06-03T19:23:22Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im not defending Christianity; Im mocking atheism which is just as corrupt and far more bloody than Christianity ever was. Mind giving a few examples? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/45 "2012-06-03T19:26:07Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > I’m . . . flattered, I guess . . . but aren’t they the exact same identical topic? No, not at all. Your thread is about your (and others) personal reactions to a request for prayer. Mine is about what might happen if the court were forced to take official notice of such a request, and to make some kind of official decisions because of complaints by the jurors. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/46 "2012-06-03T19:38:22Z")
I’ve participated in prayer circles by fundamentalists biding my time till it was over, just to avoid showing disrespect. No problem. I just watched the Thames Jubilee celebration where the British population have no problem singing “God save the Queen”. Here in Canada, every day our legislature sits is preceded with a prayer. Isn’t it weird how in all the other western countries atheism is prospering while in the country with a long held establishment clause, separation of church and state, the relatively meager number of American atheists find so much to be offended by. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/47 "2012-06-03T19:49:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im not defending Christianity; Im mocking atheism which is just as corrupt and far more bloody than Christianity ever was. Enjoy your delusions. ---
**Author:** ![PeacePlease](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PeacePlease](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeacePlease)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/48 "2012-06-03T22:15:37Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I work for a state agency, and for some reason when there are large meetings (at least at my location), or something like a staff appreciation lunch, folks think we have to have a prayer. I guess it has something to do with the big boss keeping a couple different copies of the bible on his desk… Isn’t this a direct violation of the separation of church and state? That would piss me off something awful. > [@Kenm](#): > > Enjoy your delusions. Seriously. My mother is a pretty devout Christian. My Dad is not but is a closeted non-believer (except with me, his black-sheep, liberal, atheist daughter). Cannot tell you the number of times that I’ve been forced into ‘prayer’. But, you know, it’s not like it’s hurting me. I just stay silent and let her (or the remainder of my extended family…who always include the whole hand-holding bit) do their thing and think to myself…man, y’all are brain washed! The only time it really truly pissed me off was when I found myself in the hospital. My mother’s pastor came to visit. Now, mind you, I am NOT a member of his congregation in the least. I’m very glad my mother was there at the time, otherwise I’m not sure what I would have said. But before he went to leave, we had to hold hands and pray for my well-being. I didn’t stand up for myself because I didn’t want to hurt my Mom’s feelings, but it pisses me off to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/49 "2012-06-03T22:56:57Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I can’t figure out how these people’s minds work. Do they think God will let someone suffer and die if there aren’t sufficient people praying for them? If some little kid dies a horrible death does that mean God could have saved them and decided not to? > > I can see things like last rites, asking God for mercy, but the idea that we need to say “Hey God, look over here, cousin Joey believes in you more than that kid with leukemia down the hall” suggest a God so repulsive that I don’t know why people would want to worship him. My thoughts exactly. I always imagine god sitting up there going: “Well gee, Sam, I would have liked to help you, and I could have if only two more people had prayed for you. But as it is, my hands are tied.” ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/50 "2012-06-04T00:12:38Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im not defending Christianity; Im mocking atheism which is just as corrupt and far more bloody than Christianity ever was. And not collecting stamps consumes too much time.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/51 "2012-06-04T01:36:58Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Im not defending Christianity; Im mocking atheism which is just as corrupt and far more bloody than Christianity ever was. How bloody is not believing in Leprechauns? The corrupt part is a real laugher though. What do atheists do, misappropriate the money they don’t collect from the services they don’t go to? Or do they protect other atheists who don’t diddle little boys who don’t go to services in the buildings that don’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/52 "2012-06-04T01:46:53Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I > Isn’t it weird how in all the other western countries atheism is prospering while in the country with a long held establishment clause, separation of church and state, the relatively meager number of American atheists find so much to be offended by. No, what it shows is that in countries which practice the separation of church and state religion thrives, while in countries that don’t, it actually hurts religion. Sometimes I think the best thing thing that could happen is for us to allow teacher-led prayer in school and hang the 10 commandments in classrooms. “Mommy, why did Mrs Lopez make us say the Hail Mary? And why did Mr Sanders mark me wrong when I wrote what the 9th commandment was on the test? I wrote just what it said on the wall in Ms. Bernstein’s room. Oh, and I have rug burn from praying in Mr Hassim’s class. Can’t I just pray at home with you guys?” ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/53 "2012-06-04T02:21:07Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Mind giving a few examples? Nazi Germany; Stalinist USSR; Maoist China; Pol Pot Cambodia… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/54 "2012-06-04T02:24:32Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > How bloody is not believing in Leprechauns? > > The corrupt part is a real laugher though. What do atheists do, misappropriate the money they don’t collect from the services they don’t go to? Or do they protect other atheists who don’t diddle little boys who don’t go to services in the buildings that don’t exist? Atheistic corruption is the absence of any moral stricture on anything. Atheistic regimes freely engage in mass murder because there is no restriction on mass murder in their belief system and because some folks are just so evil and wrong-headed that they must be eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/55 "2012-06-04T02:41:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’ve participated in prayer circles by fundamentalists biding my time till it was over, just to avoid showing disrespect. No problem. > > I just watched the Thames Jubilee celebration where the British population have no problem singing “God save the Queen”. > > Here in Canada, every day our legislature sits is preceded with a prayer. > > Isn’t it weird how in all the other western countries atheism is prospering while in the country with a long held establishment clause, separation of church and state, the relatively meager number of American atheists find so much to be offended by. I do find a lot to be offended by when others insist in word, deed or law that I go along with their religious delusions: not merely tolerate their observance, but observe them myself. And it is happening a lot more often than ever before. I can thank the rise of religious evangelism in the US since the 1960’s for it, I suppose. With that evangelism came an increasing lack of respect for those of us who are not religious, and for our rights. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/56 "2012-06-04T03:01:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Nazi Germany; Stalinist USSR; Maoist China; Pol Pot Cambodia… Hitler was not [clearly an atheist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler), he was a member of the Catholic Church until his death. Cambodia and China were never “Christian” countries to begin with. Mao and Pol Pot did not use religion as a reason for the murder of their subjects I’ll give you Stalin. He obviously viewed religion as a threat to his own power. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/57 "2012-06-04T10:09:58Z")
I’m agnostic leaning towards atheism, but I’m also a nice southern boy who wouldn’t dream of not playing along, even though I think it’s ridiculous. To quote the Drive By Truckers, “it’s the duality of the Southern Thing”. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/58 "2012-06-04T10:28:46Z")
There are many Atheists who have done many nasty naughty things. But they don’t do it _in the name of_ Atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/59 "2012-06-04T11:32:31Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > There are many Atheists who have done many nasty naughty things. But they don’t do it _in the name of_ Atheism. No but see, what he’s getting at is that there are strict moral restrictions and codes inherent to Christianity that make it inherently impossible for an overtly Christian culture or nation to engage in mass murder or anything of the sort. And indeed, he’s absolutely correct if you correct for extraordinary events: besides crusades on Muslims, Baltic pagans, French heretics and Spanish jews ; besides witch burnings ; besides unleashing the apocalypse on an entire New World ; besides Catholics persecuting Protestants (or vice versa) ; besides colonialism ; and if you don’t count every other war or bloody revolt-crushing in the history of Christendom ; when have Christian-dominated societies \*ever \*done anything even remotely mass murdery ? I think you’ll find the answer is never. Not once. That’s because Christ is Love. In your face atheists ! ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807/60 "2012-06-04T13:31:15Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > My thoughts exactly. I always imagine god sitting up there going: “Well gee, Sam, I would have liked to help you, and I could have if only two more people had prayed for you. But as it is, my hands are tied.” I love the stories about how people were almost going to be on the plane which crashed, but god caused them to be late so they missed it and took the next one, arriving safely. OK, so god plays favorites. Saves this guy, but lets someone else have his seat. If you are a true believer, would you ever dare fly standby? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-angry-men-and-one-atheist/623807.md?page=2)