# 11 year old charged with murder as an adult **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 22, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698 "2010-09-22T20:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/21 "2010-09-23T20:22:50Z")
Not hardly: > [@](#): > > “Little Zyda White suffered a head injury and blunt force trauma to her torso and buttocks . . .” Don’t agree that an 11-year-old should be charged as an adult at all but it appears she did do something. (Can’t get my hyperlinking to work) [http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100923/hl\_time/httphealthlandtimecom20100923an11yearoldbabysitterischargedwithmurderhowyoungistooyoungtocareforkidsxidrssfullhealthsciyahoo](http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100923/hl_time/httphealthlandtimecom20100923an11yearoldbabysitterischargedwithmurderhowyoungistooyoungtocareforkidsxidrssfullhealthsciyahoo) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/22 "2010-09-23T20:41:39Z")
Does this work the other way around? Can the DMV throw out the rules for legal driving ages if a local official decides an 11 year old seems mature enough to drive? Can a police officer decide to ignore local curfew laws and let certain teenagers roam free based on his personal assessment of their maturity? Can a bartender decide to serve minors because he thinks they are big enough and mature enough to handle their liquor? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/23 "2010-09-23T20:57:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does this work the other way around? I was hoping you were going to say I could be charged as a minor if I acted suitably childishly. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/24 "2010-09-23T21:01:21Z")
I haven’t even read the article but can state, unequivocally, that an 11-year-old should never be treated as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/25 "2010-09-23T21:10:59Z")
I live in the greater Atlanta metro area, Sandy Springs is a very new city that had to fight to be incorporated because many argued it was too close to Atlanta to be made into a separate city. The city is well integrated and has been for some time, if the call to charge the child as an adult had its origin in racism, it’s unlikely that it’s part of the hardcore racism you might see in a less integrated, more isolated community. Doesn’t mean there aren’t racist people on the police force of course. So an individual may have devolved into barbarism, I doubt the city has. And frankly, there are plenty of individuals who do not have to devolve to become barbaric. I personally think it’s probably just the dumbth combined with horror at what the kid did. And we can all understand horror at what the kid did. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/26 "2010-09-23T21:14:04Z")
> [@villa](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Does this work the other way around? > > **I was hoping you were going to say I could be charged as a minor if I acted suitably childishly.** This post has been Graped by the Grapist! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/27 "2010-09-23T21:35:19Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I was baby-sitting toddlers and babies when I was ten. With a list of phone numbers in my pocket, and a neighbor across the street that had agreed to be an emergency backup. I managed not to kill any of my charges. > > That said, I don’t care who is in charge of the decision, there is absolutely no fucking way they should even for one second consider charging an eleven-year-old as an adult. > > Period. > > I can see valid debate in the mid to late teens; and I can see me coming down on either side of the debate, depending. But . . . > > Eleven? There is simply no way, absolutely no fucking way that any rational person in this country should consider for one moment that an eleven-year-old should be charged as an adult. > [@magellan01](#): > > I haven’t even read the article but can state, unequivocally, that an 11-year-old should never be treated as an adult. [Mary Bell was 10 years old when she murdered Brian Howe and Martin Brown](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/bell/index_1.html). It happens, is all I’m sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/28 "2010-09-23T21:51:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Does this work the other way around? Can the DMV throw out the rules for legal driving ages if a local official decides an 11 year old seems mature enough to drive? Can a police officer decide to ignore local curfew laws and let certain teenagers roam free based on his personal assessment of their maturity? Can a bartender decide to serve minors because he thinks they are big enough and mature enough to handle their liquor? It seems to me that killing someone demonstrates an unusual degree of maturity in an 11 year old. Sure, MOST people don’t kill until 18 or older, but if the kid feels ready, who are we to judge? ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/29 "2010-09-23T23:22:49Z")
Sooo… an 11-year-old can be mature enough to tell right from wrong and murder someone, but is not old enough to consent to sex with an adult? If that same 11-year-old had sex with someone older than 18, wouldn’t she be treated as a child? How can children be both aware of right and wrong and not aware of right and wrong? She should not be charged as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/30 "2010-09-23T23:25:30Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > It seems to me that killing someone demonstrates an unusual degree of maturity in an 11 year old. Sure, MOST people don’t kill until 18 or older, but if the kid feels ready, who are we to judge? She’s eman(slaughter)cipated, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/31 "2010-09-23T23:30:46Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > [Mary Bell was 10 years old when she murdered Brian Howe and Martin Brown](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/bell/index_1.html). It happens, is all I’m sayin’. I remember the first time I went to Britain and saw a documentary on this case. It still haunts me. [And this one too…](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/young/bulger/1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/32 "2010-09-23T23:44:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > It seems to me that killing someone demonstrates an unusual degree of maturity in an 11 year old. Sure, MOST people don’t kill until 18 or older, but if the kid feels ready, who are we to judge? > > She’s eman(slaughter)cipated, as it were. Yes, you have again reached the core of my thinking, and I can only be grateful you did not need a dissection kit to do so. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/33 "2010-09-23T23:52:50Z")
I have no problem trying children as adults. If she’s tried as a kid, she walks in a few years whether she’s a future ax-murderer or not. Once the psychs spend some time with her, they can help decide. If the kid’s missing some important wiring in her brain, I sure as hell don’t want her walking around free as soon as she’s an adult psycho maniac. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/34 "2010-09-24T00:00:36Z")
> [@Shawn1767](#): > > Sooo… an 11-year-old can be mature enough to tell right from wrong and murder someone, but is not old enough to consent to sex with an adult? She can’t vote or drive a car, either. Insult to injury! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/35 "2010-09-24T07:45:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Does this work the other way around? Can the DMV throw out the rules for legal driving ages if a local official decides an 11 year old seems mature enough to drive? Can a police officer decide to ignore local curfew laws and let certain teenagers roam free based on his personal assessment of their maturity? Can a bartender decide to serve minors because he thinks they are big enough and mature enough to handle their liquor? > > It seems to me that killing someone demonstrates an unusual degree of maturity in an 11 year old. Sure, MOST people don’t kill until 18 or older, but if the kid feels ready, who are we to judge? Not necessarily. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > Are there any more details? This could have been as simple as playing on the bed and the 11 year old shoving the little one to be playful or mean, and the worst happening. > > God knows I was an ass to my little cousin growing up and at around 9 if I saw her I shoved her. Thank goodness nothing ever happened. My poor cousin. Once when I was 10 I got home with a ton of homework (and of a kind I hated, and due “tomorrow”, and it’s not like the teacher didn’t know what other homework we had, since she taught us everything except PhysEd) to find that whatever adult was in the house was in the kitchen and my youngest brother and his pal Nacho had gotten into my room, emptied every drawer, dismantled the bed… I snarled at them to get out and that you do not enter other people’s rooms without permission, and Nacho turned around, stuck his chest and butt out (that posture is known as “gallito”, or “cockerel”, in Spanish) and called me a “¡Puta!”, then gave me this smug “whatchagonnado?” look. What I did was backslap him. He, my BFF’s brother (10 months younger than me) and two of my cousins (10 months older and 5 months younger than me) are the only people I remember hitting. He flew up and crashed onto my parents’ beds, no harm done, but boy was I grateful! I had not expected him to fly off like that, certainly had not intended to do him more harm than what you’d get from a non-orbital backhand. We were both luck that day: him because all he got was a red face (and because apparently it’s the incident which taught him that not every “grownup” was automatically wrapped around his finger), me because all he got was a red face. But if he had come up against something other than my parents’ bed, then what? Do you really think that not realizing my own strength combined with some bad luck would have made me a murderer, **BoyoJim**? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/36 "2010-09-24T09:06:44Z")
I think I have come to a the conclusion the whole ‘tried as an adult’ thing is overused in the US. Further, I read a great idea on the opEd of the Washington Post a couple of years ago. The greatest penalty any court should impose on a child is twice their age. An 11-year-old killer should get a maximum of 22 years. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/37 "2010-09-24T14:55:18Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > The greatest penalty any court should impose on a child is twice their age. An 11-year-old killer should get a maximum of 22 years. Great. So my 2-year-old nephew could kill me and be out in time for kindergarten. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/38 "2010-09-24T15:04:25Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > > [@Frank](#): > > > > I was baby-sitting toddlers and babies when I was ten. With a list of phone numbers in my pocket, and a neighbor across the street that had agreed to be an emergency backup. I managed not to kill any of my charges. > > > > That said, I don’t care who is in charge of the decision, there is absolutely no fucking way they should even for one second consider charging an eleven-year-old as an adult. > > > > Period. > > > > I can see valid debate in the mid to late teens; and I can see me coming down on either side of the debate, depending. But . . . > > > > Eleven? There is simply no way, absolutely no fucking way that any rational person in this country should consider for one moment that an eleven-year-old should be charged as an adult. > > > [@magellan01](#): > > > > I haven’t even read the article but can state, unequivocally, that an 11-year-old should never be treated as an adult. > > [Mary Bell was 10 years old when she murdered Brian Howe and Martin Brown](http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/bell/index_1.html). It happens, is all I’m sayin’. Funny. What you see as a psychopath who should have been locked up for life, I see as a child with at best a deeply troubled home life (at worst, terribly abused, emotionally, physically, and sexually), who has not reoffended since her release, THIRTY YEARS AGO. And you’re using this as a case to argue that we should treat juvenile offenders as adults? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/39 "2010-09-24T15:07:41Z")
So if a two-year old did kill you, ought we to destroy two lives? Would you accept the six-year-old would be a very different person from the killer four years previously? Do you think a child ought to be locked up for life? ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698/40 "2010-09-24T15:14:54Z")
I always thought the whole “tried as an adult” thing was for people who committed horrific crimes, and were close to the age of majority. This does not seem to be the case here as far as I can tell… I had first heard of this when [Craig Price](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Price) was on trial. Rhode Island State law was changed to allow for this. He definitely deserved to be tried as an adult… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/11-year-old-charged-with-murder-as-an-adult/554698.md?page=3)