# 12:00 am/pm **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 18, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971 "2016-10-18T18:55:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/1 "2016-10-18T18:55:24Z")
Those times are just wrong! The minute after 11:59 AM should be 12:00 AM followed by 12:01 PM. Or even better, let’s just call it either 12 Noon or just Noon. And the same with Midnight. That’s why I use 24 hour time, myself. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/2 "2016-10-18T18:58:58Z")
Scrap the 12 hour clock and go to 24 hours, like military time. 1200 is noon. 0000 is midnight. No AM and PM – breakfast at 0600, lunch at 1200, dinner at 1800, midrats (midnight rations) at 0000, and no one is confused. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/3 "2016-10-18T19:17:12Z")
Reported, for having nothing to do with Donald Trump. But yeah, 24-hour is the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/4 "2016-10-18T19:26:59Z")
I disagree. 12:00 is the start of a new hour, so noon should be 12:00 PM. But I agree with everyone else about 24 hour time. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/5 "2016-10-18T19:28:56Z")
It should be 12 noon and 12 midnight because 12 is neither ante- nor post- meridian - it _is_ the meridian. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/6 "2016-10-18T19:29:54Z")
12:00 is neither AM or PM. There is 12:00 noon and 12:00 midnight. However, 12:00.01 AM is clearly just after midnight, and 12:00:01 PM is clearly just after noon. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/7 "2016-10-18T20:26:06Z")
By the time the photons from the 12:00 midnight hit your retina and are decoded by your visual cortex it is ante meridian. Hence 12:00 midnight is 12 am. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/8 "2016-10-18T20:58:26Z")
This is more or less a re-hash of wondering when the seasons change. There’s no “official” start to a season, though many people, by convention, use a set date. Likewise, by convention and to avoid a lot of work, many people (and computer systems) denote noon to be 12:00 pm. That doesn’t make it wrong (except in an excessively pedantic sense). It just makes it a convention you don’t happen to like, much like I don’t happen to like the convention that the summer solstice is the first day of summer. > [@Ludovic](#): > > It should be 12 noon and 12 midnight because 12 is neither ante- nor post- meridian - it _is_ the meridian. AM/PM is anti-/post- **meridiem** NOT meridian, though, to be fair, both are derived from the same Latin word for mid-day. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/9 "2016-10-18T21:07:23Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > 12:00 is neither AM or PM. There is 12:00 noon and 12:00 midnight. However, 12:00.01 AM is clearly just after midnight, and 12:00:01 PM is clearly just after noon. Pretty much what Telemark said. 12 straight-up marks the division between morning and afternoon, or the end of the day and the beginning of the next. It is neither a.m. nor p.m., it is noon and midnight, and I really, REALLY wish people would remember this, because I never, ever know which way they’re going when they use a.m. and p.m. with 12. The military clock does prevent that confusion, but good luck getting anyone NOT in the military to use it. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/10 "2016-10-18T21:23:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > breakfast at 0600 Fuck that noise. What am I, a rooster? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/11 "2016-10-18T21:24:37Z")
Been on 24-hour time since my teens. Usually drives the family crazy but it’s better than the stupidity of repeating hour sets. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/12 "2016-10-18T21:52:10Z")
No it wasn’t the AM/PM. There was a separate knob for the radio alarm. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/13 "2016-10-18T21:53:54Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > This is more or less a re-hash of wondering when the seasons change. There’s no “official” start to a season, though many people, by convention, use a set date. . . . At least one definition of the seasons has to do with orbital mechanics. For astronomers, that’s official. Also, that’s when the commonly used set date comes from. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/14 "2016-10-18T21:57:49Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > No it wasn’t the AM/PM. There was a separate knob for the radio alarm. Off on a tangent, if we go on a 24 hour clock, what will the chain of convenience stores call themselves? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/15 "2016-10-19T02:32:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > At least one definition of the seasons has to do with orbital mechanics. For astronomers, that’s official. Also, that’s when the commonly used set date comes from. Well, sure, but from context, it was clear I meant meteorological seasons. Which is why it’s a pet peeve of mine when people around here whine and complain about how hot it’s getting in April or May when “it’s not even officially summer yet”. They sure as hell aren’t complaining about astronomical summer, which is only positively correlated with meteorological summer for the Northern Hemisphere at mid-latitudes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/16 "2016-10-19T03:36:05Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It should be 12 noon and 12 midnight because 12 is neither ante- nor post- meridian - it _is_ the meridian. > [@Telemark](#): > > 12:00 is neither AM or PM. There is 12:00 noon and 12:00 midnight. However, 12:00.01 AM is clearly just after midnight, and 12:00:01 PM is clearly just after noon. I refer you to this illustrious thread about infinitesimals: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=805444](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=805444) 12:00 PM is merely noon plus one of them dang arbitrarily small infinitesimals, which can be as small as you like right down to the Planck time and it’s still on the good side of “PM”. Scientific proof: Try setting up a date with your latest amorous prospect with a line like, “how about we have lunch tomorrow, and I pick you up at, say, around 12:00 AM?”. Let me know how it works out. You might actually be able to wangle it with some adventurous types by claiming work obligations or allergic reactions to sunlight due to a unique strain of DNA inherited from a long-lost Transylvanian family connection, but OTOH you might not. (And also that you never drink… wine. Try to avoid the melodramatic pause, if you can.) > [@running\_coach](#): > > Off on a tangent, if we go on a 24 hour clock, what will the chain of convenience stores call themselves? “07-23” actually has a nice ring to it. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/17 "2016-10-19T03:44:14Z")
I work at a 24/7/365 facility. The clocks are AM/PM and they will stay that way because clients get confused, though some of the printed paperwork does show military time. We also weigh everyone’s pets in kilograms. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/18 "2016-10-19T04:43:30Z")
Obviously we should have a metric clock with a multiple of 10 number of ticks per day, and a lunisolar calendar with 30 day months and an extra unaffiliated 5/6 day “week” at the end. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/19 "2016-10-19T04:48:49Z")
Most people I’ve known who, after using the 24 hour clock system (military time, etc.) for any length of time, agree with me that the AM/PM thing is completely useless, confusing, and stupid! Get rid of it and the Imperial measurement system at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971/20 "2016-10-19T05:40:54Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > The military clock does prevent that confusion, but good luck getting anyone NOT in the military to use it. It’s common practice in Quebec. Here are [some parking signs.](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/5124340420_aeb1eb5c6e.jpg) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-00-am-pm/768971.md?page=2)