# 12/13/25: Shooting near Brown University in Providence, RI **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [December 13, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677 "2025-12-13T22:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/81 "2025-12-20T19:09:13Z")
The person doing ASL during the press conferences, Jennifer Alleman, really emotes during the ‘translation.’ Not sure what’s going on with her mouth, though. Sometimes it looks sunken in as though she doesn’t have teeth. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/82 "2025-12-20T19:49:19Z")
The facial expressions are part of ASL that the signs themselves don’t convey. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/83 "2025-12-20T21:21:19Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > **Two Young Physicists Seemed Destined for Greatness. Two Decades Later, One Shot the Other Dead.** Claudio Neves Valente, the suspect in the Brown and MIT shootings, had flashes of temper; former classmates describe him as confrontational and socially awkward There is the classic saying that academic politics is so vicious precisely because so little is at stake. This case would seem to be the exception that proves that rule. Academic politics that results in murder-then-suicide is anything but small-stakes. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/84 "2025-12-20T23:40:52Z")
This whole story reminds me of these cases, which were big news when everything was exposed. One has to wonder how this guy got into, let alone stayed in, medical school. > **[Anthony Garcia (serial killer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Garcia_(serial_killer))** > > Anthony Joseph Garcia (born June 7, 1973) is an American twice-double murderer and former medical doctor who was convicted of two separate double murders, committed in 2008 and 2013 in Omaha, Nebraska. Garcia was arrested in July 2013 and went to trial in October 2016. He was found guilty on all counts, and later sentenced to death. > Garcia was born on June 7, 1973, in Los Angeles, California, to Fred, a postal service worker, and Estella, a Mexican native who was a nurse. He has two younger s... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/85 "2025-12-21T01:06:08Z")
They’re still gathering information. The security would have changed since he was a student at Brown. Camera coverage in 2001 would be sparse. But he had current information. Link [https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/20/us/brown-university-mit-professor-shootings-investigation](https://www.cnn.com/2025/12/20/us/brown-university-mit-professor-shootings-investigation) > [@](#): > > He also took strategic steps to avoid detection like swapping the license plates on a rental car linked to both shootings, concealing his identity and avoiding Brown University’s expansive network of 1,200 security cameras by opening fire in a building equipped with only two exterior cameras, and with multiple exits and entrances. . . . > [@](#): > > He was enrolled in Brown from September 2000 to April 2001, when he took a leave of absence before formally withdrawing in July 2003, the university said. There has been no formal explanation from the university on the basis for the leave, but according to CNN’s chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, it could also point to a potential motive. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/86 "2025-12-21T01:15:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Somehow he seemed to have current knowledge about the cameras. It’s not very difficult to wander around a college campus off and on for 6 months while paying attention to what you see as you walk around seemingly nonchalantly. It’s called “Casing the joint.” ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/87 "2025-12-22T14:10:13Z")
It doesn’t require “current information”, much less “casing the joint” to anticipate that there are probably cameras all over the place these days, from front door cameras across the street to red light cameras at intersections to security cameras in the target building itself to randos with their cellphones out and take generic precautions like (1) rent a car, (2) swap out the plates on said car, (3) cover your face, and (4) leave the cellphone off or at home (because by now anyone with half a brain knows they can track those things). Honestly, “casing the joint” for months on end seems like it’s _more_ likely to generate evidence because it significantly increases the exposure time (and leads to rando like some “John” noticing suspicious behavior). It’s not like this crime could only be pulled off between shifts when security guards let their guard down, for instance. There’s only so much “casing” that needs to happen if the goal is simply to go in, shoot up a bunch of unarmed college kids, and make it out without being identified at an unprotected crime scene (eg: where are the exits? When are clases held?). Doing any more than that only unnecessarily increases the risk to the perpetrator. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/88 "2025-12-22T14:27:27Z")
> by opening fire in a building equipped with only two exterior cameras, and with multiple exits and entrances. This quote is misleading. Remember the shooting took place in the **Barus & Holley** building, which is where the Department of Physics is located. He chose the building not because of a shortage of security cameras; he chose it because this was the building (or one of them) where his earlier educational/professional disaster started. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/89 "2025-12-22T14:44:30Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > he chose it because this was the building (or one of them) where his earlier educational/professional disaster started. That certainly seems likely. Also, we have no evidence it was a disaster. Just that it wasn’t successful. People who don’t make it in academia are common. My husband is a brilliant mathematician who competed in the international math olympiad for the US and earned a PhD at Princeton, and then his academic career petered out. One of his high school frenemies became one of Harvard’s youngest full professors. His story sounds like this guy’s. Except, you know, my husband pivoted to rearing children and then to web development. He did something constructive instead of killing people. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/90 "2025-12-22T14:54:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Also, we have no evidence it was a disaster. I’m sure PastTense meant it was a disaster _to him_ (the perp), even if it was a common course of events, like the one you described. Unrealistic expectations may have been to blame. (BTW, I’m sure your husband is tired of being reminded how his trajectory vis a vis his frenemy resembles that of the Robin Williams and Stellan Sarsgard characters in _Good Will Hunting_.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/91 "2025-12-22T15:03:48Z")
Lotta people with emotional or psych issues fail at work that’s highly social. Such as academia. And their mental problems help them to misattribute the cause of that failure. Some fraction of those failures and misattributions turn to revenge. Certainly not a new story. Good thing it’s as rare as it is. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/92 "2025-12-22T15:53:54Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > (BTW, I’m sure your husband is tired of being reminded how his trajectory vis a vis his frenemy resembles that of the Robin Williams and Stellan Sarsgard characters in _Good Will Hunting_.) Naw, honestly, it’s common enough on his social circles as to be unremarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/93 "2025-12-22T16:33:36Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > People who don’t make it in academia are common. If “make it” means “find a stable job in your field,” I’d say “the norm” rather than “common.” ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/94 "2025-12-22T23:08:04Z")
I’ve long heard that “washing out in academia”, whatever that may entail, ranks right up there with not marrying that person, or not getting into medical or law school, as an experience that is devastating at the time but most people to whom it occurs are later not sorry, or even outright glad, that this happened. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2025, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/95 "2025-12-22T23:40:15Z")
Well, i know a few who failed to get a tenured position, and a few who succeeded. I think the ones who failed would have liked to, and don’t feel happy about it. But i don’t think they are any less happy than the ones who succeeded. 🤷‍♀️ And of course, just like most people who don’t marry that person don’t go on to commit mass murder, neither do most people who don’t make it in academia. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2025, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/96 "2025-12-23T00:48:37Z")
Still, it’s a ginormous personal failure at the time. If one is already a wacko, that’s all the motivation needed to start the dive off the deep end. And if one is not a wacko, it’s time to find your next gig, and to rationalize the non-success of the one just ended. At least that’s what I did the first 5 times my big plans blew up in my face. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2025, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/97 "2025-12-23T17:38:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Lotta people with emotional or psych issues fail at work that’s highly social. Such as academia It is something of a cruel irony that we tell our society’s most bookish, introverted types “Hey, you know what would be a great job for you? Giving lectures in front of hundreds of people!” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2025, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/98 "2025-12-23T18:08:26Z")
If only the work of academia was solitary library research or solitary field or lab work, followed by writing a solitary paper, and sending it off to a journal for publication. If only. One of my nephews is a successful academic. Good degrees from prestige schools, hired promptly to a tenure track position at a prestige Uni, etc. He’s destined to go far. He’s certainly better educated than I. But it struck me even from when he was a pre-teen that he probably wasn’t any IQ-smarter than I was at his age. But dayum was he also a whiz at all the interpersonal stuff I sucked at. Had I tried to emulate him but 30 years earlier I’d have failed somewhere along the process of getting into the high end ultracompetitive MS or PhD programs. I probably wouldn’t have then gone on a shooting rampage, but I’d certainly have resented being weeded out for something that I’d have (mistakenly) believed was irrelevant: getting along with others and being a team player. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2025, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/99 "2025-12-24T12:19:58Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > It is something of a cruel irony that we tell our society’s most bookish, introverted types “Hey, you know what would be a great job for you? Giving lectures in front of hundreds of people!” This is so true. (But I do agree with LSLGuy’s point about successful research requiring team-player and all-around people skills). ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677/100 "2025-12-27T19:19:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > One of his high school frenemies became one of Harvard’s youngest full professors. His story sounds like this guy’s. This is the premise of the TV show AP Bio. The main character loses his position at Harvard to his frenemy, is stuck teaching AP Bio in Toledo, Ohio, and spends every class period plotting ways to get even/get his job back with the help of his reluctant students. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-13-25-shooting-near-brown-university-in-providence-ri/1025677.md?page=6)