# 12 Angry Men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [February 23, 2026, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899 "2026-02-23T00:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/21 "2026-02-23T11:02:38Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > the guy with the watch that has a second hand. Does the script say “second” hand? usually people said either “Seconds” hand to avoid confusion, or “third” hand. I noticed people starting to say “second” hand just before digital watches with stopwatch functions came around. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/22 "2026-02-23T11:33:56Z")
Yes, the script calls for a juror to have a watch with a second hand. It measures seconds, of course, and “second hand” is used in the play and in the movie. “I’m waiting until it gets to twelve” was one of my lines. Even in real life, I’ve never heard of a “seconds” hand or “third” hand. A second hand measures seconds, a minute hand measures minutes, an hour hand measures hours. Isn’t there a thread around here that talks about reading an analogue clock? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/23 "2026-02-23T11:49:22Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Even in real life, I’ve never heard of a “seconds” hand or “third” hand. A second hand measures seconds, a minute hand measures minutes, an hour hand measures hours. Same here. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/24 "2026-02-23T12:20:01Z")
The thing about discussions like this is that so many racial/ethnic/whatever stereotypes are re-usable generic accusations that it’s easy to look at a bigoted characterization and see a bunch of different potential targets. A lot of bigotry is very [Mad Libs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs), basically near-standardized rants where the bigot fills in the blank spaces to specify the accused group. You can look at a lot of bigoted rants from a hundred years ago about the “Yellow Peril” or whatever and outside of the dated word choices you could swap out the references to Asian people for “illegals” and it would fit right into the modern bigotsphere. The mention of switchblades is the standout exception, because that _isn’t_ one of the standards. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Their (Puerto Rico) food did smell- delicious IMHO- but to middle aged 1950’s white dudes who thought “spicy” was black pepper, it did smell odd, and thus so did their neighborhoods. Even today, some New Yorkers claim they can tell many neighborhoods simply by the smell. Food can certainly give people a smell; the chemicals that give food a strong taste and scent don’t vanish when you eat them, and different food ingredients produce different metabolic byproducts, some of which can be smelled even by humans. You just don’t notice it when it’s _your_ smell, it’s those _other_ people who smell weird. And of course to a bigot any noticeable difference is going to be “bad”, not just different. > [@Spoons](#): > > Isn’t there a thread around here that talks about reading an analogue clock? Yes, [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-feel-its-important-for-younger-generations-to-be-able-to-read-an-analog-clock-if-so-why/1027820). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/25 "2026-02-23T12:54:30Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > viz: West Side Story, stage play opened in 1957 (same year as above movie) one gang definitely Puerto Rican, the other gang not really ethnically identified IIRC, so I guess they were “white,” or anyway at least one generation local. There’s a lot of interesting subtext in West Side Story. There’s the Puerto Rican gang (Sharks), and the Jets - who have names like Tony, and girlfriends with names like Graziella - so, Italian-American, probably children or grandchildren of immigrants, assimilated, but recently enough that the status feels insecure. Both the Jets and the Sharks would be Catholic. The local cops, Schrank and Krupke - Eastern European names, more assimilated (obviously, since they’ve got jobs with some authority). Their immigrant ancestors came over in the 19th century. Glad Hand, the social worker, played by John Astin in the movie, is the really WASP character, who thinks that all these ethnics should just learn to get along. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan\_myers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@aruvqan\_myers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan_myers)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/26 "2026-02-23T14:43:39Z")
I grew up in the 60s and 70s [well born in in 61] and after 5 years in housing in Germany [Dad was career Army] we lived in a tiny town in southern tier western NY [Perry, if you must know - do visit Letchworth State park, the Grand Canyon of the East - well worth it] and as such in town we actually had a supermarket [IGA] and a couple other food sources [old company town, there actually was a ‘company store’ that had gottten turned into effectively a convenience store and a full on butcher [they also did game for the hunters in season, they were mainly for the local farms and did beef, pork, chicken and turkey with chicken eggs and milk from the local dairy] I will say, the food products I remember were bland basic - the critters on offer tended to be the common cuts of cow, pig and chicken. Lamb and turkey around the appropriate holidays. Veg tended to be what I joke of as the WASP [white anglo saxon protestant] mirepoix - carrots, celery, onion, potato, cabbage, lettuce, pumpkin in the fall, asparagus in spring, sweet corn end of summer, assorted local fruit - apples, pears, plums, watermelon, seedy thompson grapes, lemons normally all year, rarely limes, oranges and grapefruits in season [like Christmas - Feb] The usual frozen and canned goods - though typically the only real canned soup was Campbells condensed and pretty much the frozen brand was Birdseye. Seasoning tended to be salt, pepper, and dried ground mustard, parsley, some ‘packets’ and random jars [I think McCormick?] I do wish my mom were around but she passed almost a decade ago so a better resource isn’t around right now. We had an odd sort of diet - my mom and dad having spent time living in Europe and around the US variously had been exposed to a lot of stuff never seen in podunk WNY - and with my grandparents owning a company with offices in Manhattan odd stuff would show up - I mean, whole peel and eat shrimp, artichokes, all sorts of stuff that normally only got seen in magazines or TV =) so we grew up eating all sorts of stuff that started getting into the US diet in the late 70s and 80s. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/27 "2026-02-23T21:04:08Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > There are A LOT of people who objected to a nice Puerto Rican boy named Bad Bunny a couple of weeks ago at the Super Bowl. And so? What does that have to do with this thread, and the way “those people” smell? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Food can certainly give people a smell; the chemicals that give food a strong taste and scent don’t vanish when you eat them, and different food ingredients produce different metabolic byproducts, some of which can be smelled even by humans. You just don’t notice it when it’s _your_ smell, it’s those _other_ people who smell weird. And of course to a bigot any noticeable difference is going to be “bad”, not just different. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/28 "2026-02-23T21:14:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Biffster](#): > > > > There are A LOT of people who objected to a nice Puerto Rican boy named Bad Bunny a couple of weeks ago at the Super Bowl. > > And so? What does that have to do with this thread, and the way “those people” smell? Uhh….there’s a lot of racist people around today, over 60 years later. I didn’t the relevance was that hard to miss. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/29 "2026-02-23T21:18:01Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Beat me to it, **CMC**. Juror 3 (Lee J. Cobb) loses it because the father-son relationship of the case reminds him of the relationship he has with his own son. > > I know this show well. I’ve seen the movie umpteen times, and was in a community theatre production some years ago. I was Juror 2, the guy with the watch that has a second hand On a related note, Lee J. Cobb was the original Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman. Very different character than Juror No. 3 though. Brilliant actor. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/30 "2026-02-23T21:18:29Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Uhh….there’s a lot of racist people around today, over 60 years later. No doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/31 "2026-02-23T21:45:48Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Most of?? How would you not watch until the end? Meh, you’ve seen 7 Angry Men, you’ve seen all 12. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/32 "2026-02-23T22:08:16Z")
Three of them weren’t really even angry. Ranting was just their schtick (I’m lookin’ at you, Klugman!). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/33 "2026-02-23T22:37:07Z")
My 10th grade English teacher was obsessed with Juror 12, the ad man. I guess because all of his lines and behaviors just scream “advertising!” and that’s how you should write all of your characters; defined by their occupation. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/34 "2026-02-23T22:50:50Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > On a related note, Lee J. Cobb was the original Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman. Very different character than Juror No. 3 though. Brilliant actor. He had some great line-readings in _The Exorcist_ (in a role that’s not as well-remembered as others in the film). > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For fans of the movie, one of the most amazing and gut bustingly hilarious parody sketches I’ve ever seen was done by Amy Schumer, in her show episode “12 Angry Men Inside Amy Schumer”. She somehow got about a half dozen a-list and b-list stars to participate, including Jeff Goldblum and Paul Giamatti. I can’t recommend it enough. Yes, it’s a hilarious sketch. I won’t spoil it, but the sketch’s analog of the switchblade-knife must be seen to be believed. As for the ethnicity angle: my strong impression of the film, at least, was that the “kid’s” background was considered to be a problem by the jury’s bigots—and that this was an unstated irony of the piece, given that the jury members (as cast, anyway) were scarcely uniformly WASP-y. Even Henry Fonda had Italian heritage on his father’s side. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/35 "2026-02-23T23:10:23Z")
And one of them, Juror No. 11 (played by Czech-born George Voskovec) was explicitly an immigrant from Eastern Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/36 "2026-02-23T23:22:24Z")
Yeah, that’s right, so all the “those people” comments looked particularly ugly. (The point, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/37 "2026-02-23T23:35:21Z")
All of the explicitly racist stuff came from one juror (#10). All the rest seemed fairly disgusted by his remarks. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2026, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/38 "2026-02-23T23:43:51Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > that the jury members (as cast, anyway) were scarcely uniformly WASP-y. Even Henry Fonda had Italian heritage on his father’s side And No. 9 turns out to be named “McCardle,” making him at least part Irish or Scottish. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2026, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/39 "2026-02-24T00:28:47Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > The switchblade was often associated with gang activity in the 50s, in particular New York City Hispanic gangs. The classic switchblade is an Italian stiletto. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2026, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899/40 "2026-02-24T02:30:22Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > All of the explicitly racist stuff came from one juror (#10). All the rest seemed fairly disgusted by his remarks. They all turn their backs on him if memory serves. No. 4 tells him to shut up and not speak again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-angry-men/1027899.md?page=3)