# $12 Billion in Aid Going to Farmers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515 "2018-07-24T17:48:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/221 "2018-08-02T01:15:23Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m not sure why people are so interest in family farms or small farms in this thread, but it’s good to remember that while small family farms (where “small” means having an annual gross cash farm income of less than $350k (!!!)) comprise about 90% of farms by number, they only farm about half the acreage and are only responsible for about a quarter of the production: [https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2017/march/large-family-farms-continue-to-dominate-us-agricultural-production/](https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2017/march/large-family-farms-continue-to-dominate-us-agricultural-production/) > > And the farmers receiving most of the federal money are certainly not poor: [USDA ERS - The Evolving Distribution of Payments From Commodity, Conservation, and Federal Crop Insurance Programs](https://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/pub-details/?pubid=85833) You do understand that gross cash farm income is _gross_ before costs, taxes and expenses? [For Most, On-Farm Household Income Remains Negative](https://www.fb.org/market-intel/net-farm-income-projected-to-drop-to-12-year-low) You would be surprised how many farms only survive because of off-farm jobs. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/222 "2018-08-02T04:34:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Get a sense of humor. I have a sense of humor. You’re not Don Rickles. Don’t insult my friends and family with a stupid crack that only shows you’re the ignorant one. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/223 "2018-08-02T04:42:10Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > I have a sense of humor. You’re not Don Rickles. > Don’t insult my friends and family with a stupid crack that only shows you’re the ignorant one. I apologize. It was not meant to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/224 "2018-08-02T08:23:04Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > You do understand that gross cash farm income is _gross_ before costs, taxes and expenses? > > [For Most, On-Farm Household Income Remains Negative](https://www.fb.org/market-intel/net-farm-income-projected-to-drop-to-12-year-low) > > You would be surprised how many farms only survive because of off-farm jobs. The biggest current farmer in my extended family grows corn and soy, but also sells farm insurance and retails some farm equipment to other farmers. Mind you, he’s got nine kids so some of his costs are his own damn fault. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/225 "2018-08-02T11:05:49Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > You do understand that gross cash farm income is _gross_ before costs, taxes and expenses? > > [For Most, On-Farm Household Income Remains Negative](https://www.fb.org/market-intel/net-farm-income-projected-to-drop-to-12-year-low) > > You would be surprised how many farms only survive because of off-farm jobs. Of course. And that’s why USDA doesn’t even classify a farm as a “farm business” unless they have GCFI above $350k (our farm does not qualify.) Because these on-average nonviable businesses don’t produce enough food to be significant but they skew the statistics out of sheer numbers. Farm businesses, the ones that grow 90% of the farm sector’s production value, have an average income of like $140k. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/226 "2018-08-02T12:01:18Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m not sure why people are so interest in family farms or small farms in this thread, but it’s good to remember that while small family farms (where “small” means having an annual gross cash farm income of less than $350k (!!!)) comprise about 90% of farms by number, **they only farm about half the acreage and are only responsible for about a quarter of the production** : [https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2017/march/large-family-farms-continue-to-dominate-us-agricultural-production/](https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2017/march/large-family-farms-continue-to-dominate-us-agricultural-production/) …which is a major reason why we should be protecting their interests as small farmers. A relatively small number of people in non-farm sectors are responsible for a disproportionate amount of wealth and GDP revenue, which is an argument for supporting the interests of the little guy, not cutting aid or programs that help them help themselves. I have absolutely no problem with farm subsidies in tandem with free trade, which is what we’ve been doing for decades. Granted, there are unintended consequences, like creating excessively cheap product that can harm growers in other countries like Mexico, thereby increasing the demand for illegal immigration here. But those are problems that can be worked out if we create a social and political environment in which we don’t automatically assume the worst of everyone’s intentions. The problem is, in 2018, we absolutely assume the worst intentions of ‘the other’. We’re far better off with the politics of cooperation, but that’s not the political system we have now. Tariffs actually exacerbate this problem because it marks a transition from a world economic system in which countries both compete and cooperate with each other…to a world in which there is no cooperation, only competition. It starts with economic warfare. It ends with something far worse. History teaches us that. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/227 "2018-08-02T12:37:10Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > …which is a major reason why we should be protecting their interests as small farmers. A relatively small number of people in non-farm sectors are responsible for a disproportionate amount of wealth and GDP revenue, which is an argument for supporting the interests of the little guy, not cutting aid or programs that help them help themselves. Inefficient businesses should go out of business. It’s not like we depend on the little guy to keep ourselves fed. And exisiting programs we’re discussing do little to help the “little guy” anyway. And being a little guy is no justification for taking money from me and you and buying his peanuts because he can’t produce them and make money at the market rate. Just stop growing peanuts. Some of that land will go out of production (an environmental plus). Some of it will be consolidated into other, more efficient businesses (an economic plus), and some of it will be simply replaced by new farmers, who will be a mixed bag wrt how good they are at their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/228 "2018-08-02T12:51:16Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > This might be an “everybody gets subsidies” argument, although it’s hard to tell because the post primarily comprises a serious of questionably relevant\* factoids. Remember, we’re talking about price supports being “necessary to protect the farming infrastructure from price drops resulting from bumper crops in”. These price supports primarily manifest in the form of effective price floors, e.g. via ARC, PLC, etc. Not tariffs (that have a trade-weighted average tariff of only 2% on industrial goods and that don’t even apply to half of industrial goods, [cite](https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/industry-manufacturing/industrial-tariffss).) Not broad tax policy that doesn’t discriminate based on business sector or product > > So tariffs, on average, are low, when they even apply at all. Or at least they were until our dear president started…helping. And any business can depreciate capital equipment, be it a tractor or a ceramic slurry tape caster. > > But we have a price floor for peanuts. > > Agricultural price supports are in a class of their own that we just don’t see for most products. And which we don’t need for any products. > \*I mean seriously, how does the percentage of farms operated as family businesses (like ours) have anything to do with price supports being necessary? How does the EITC have anything to do with price supports being necessary? Illegal aliens? I am serious , Agricultural price supports are in a class of their own because the alternative is starvation and chaos. The USSR fell because the collective farms could not feed the population. seriously, More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans > **[U.S. could feed 800 million people with grain that livestock eat, Cornell...](https://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat)** > > From one ecologist's perspective, the American system of farming grain-fed livestock consumes resources far out of proportion to the yield, accelerates soil erosion, affects world food supply and will be changing in the future. Seriously, eliminating subsidies of largest producers of commodities like corn, soybeans, wheat, cotton, and rice then would result in much higher prices for chickens, pork, beef, turkeys, milk, cheese, eggs, and T-shirts. commodities whose prices are affected by world supply. Seriously, small farms receive a subsidy indirectly when purchasing grain feed stocks in the upstream supply chain. Your farm operation may suffer from higher costs of production other farms most certainly will. Seriously, what does depreciation tax deduction on capital equipment have to do with price supports. An irrelevant factoid. China Tells Farmers To Grow More Soybeans Amid Trade Fight With U.S. > **[China Tells Farmers To Grow More Soybeans Amid Trade Fight With U.S.](https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621448109/china-tells-farmers-to-grow-more-soybeans-amid-trade-fight-with-u-s)** > > After hitting U.S. soybeans with retaliatory tariffs, China is seeking alternatives to supply its important crop. It was China’s choice to disrupt their food supply. Trump did not institute tariffs on food stuffs from China. > **[Trump Hits China With Tariffs On $50 Billion Of Goods; China Says It Will...](https://www.npr.org/2018/06/15/620259820/trump-levies-50-billion-in-tariffs-as-china-says-it-will-retaliate)** > > After months of threats, U.S. customs will begin to collect the new tariffs on Chinese imports on July 6. China quickly announced tariffs of the same scale. > **[List%201.pdf](https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf)** China is retaliating stupidly. But the farmer interviewed for the NPR article Said she would grow soybeans “If they give me a better subsidy”. NB: All countries in the world subsidize farming except for New Zealand. The serious lesson here is Foreign governments can tell their farmers to grow whatever. These edicts will cause an increase in product supply which will result in decrease of price given a constant demand. The price decrease may result in US farmers financial loss as production expenses exceed income from sales. Multiple year finacial losses will result in insolvency of the farm and a reduction in the US food supply. I failed to list the food stamp subsidy and the low or non-existence of state sales tax on food. All subsidies whether direct or indirect for food keeps the family food budget low and the the disposable family income high which can be spent on other products. I am serious about this. Yes, I am " serious of questionably relevant\* factoids" in your first sentence. Yes there will be a red-hot bumper crop this year in Uzbekistan which will upset the global market. > **[Ordered To Grow Red-Hot Chili Peppers, Uzbek Farmers May As Well Give 'Em...](https://www.rferl.org/a/uzbekistan-ordered-to-grow-chili-peppers-farmers-may-as-well-give-em-away-now/29292953.html)** > > It was bad enough they had to grow a new crop. Now some Uzbek chili-pepper farmers complain they have to line up foreign buyers as well. I believe I have answered all your question and am surprised you did not know the answers already, you being a farmer and all. You are rather myopic thinking all of the 2.1 million farms are like yours. or maybe you are just toeing the party line (drank the kool-aid) in these straight dope (oxymoron) environs. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/229 "2018-08-02T13:28:51Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Inefficient businesses should go out of business. It’s not like we depend on the little guy to keep ourselves fed. And exisiting programs we’re discussing do little to help the “little guy” anyway. And being a little guy is no justification for taking money from me and you and buying his peanuts because he can’t produce them and make money at the market rate. Just stop growing peanuts. > > Some of that land will go out of production (an environmental plus). Some of it will be consolidated into other, more efficient businesses (an economic plus), and some of it will be simply replaced by new farmers, who will be a mixed bag wrt how good they are at their jobs. You assume that little farmer is an Inefficient business. Some of that land will go out of production and the smart land owner will take advantage of the Conservation reserve program(CRP) a subsidy! [https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/conservation-reserve-program/](https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/conservation-programs/conservation-reserve-program/) It is a gross generalization for you to say “Some of it will be consolidated into other, more efficient businesses” There is 922 million acres in US farmland. Consolidation may result in less than .01% being converted in our lifetime. “His peanuts” refers to POTUS Jimmy Carter, a democrat who made his fortune from a highly subsidized and tariffed peanut farm product. The subsidies and tariffs existed since the 1930’s. You stated that you are a farmer and I assume you have a little farm, you wasting your time on this board but we depend on the products you harvest and thank you for that so get back to work the suns was up at the time of your post unless your farm is in HI or AK! ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/230 "2018-08-02T13:41:14Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Of course. And that’s why USDA doesn’t even classify a farm as a “farm business” unless they have GCFI above $350k (our farm does not qualify.) Because these on-average nonviable businesses don’t produce enough food to be significant but they skew the statistics out of sheer numbers. > > Farm businesses, the ones that grow 90% of the farm sector’s production value, have an average income of like $140k. Reading all your posts and given the information in this post, your farms average income is less than $140K and under the current subsidy program your farm does not qualify. Well prior to 2014 farm bill your farm would have qualified but due to all this squawking against subsidies it no longer does. Me thinks you pissed on your shoe. I would advise you join the Republicans to protect US manufacturing, increase employment and opportunity and reduce the earned income and other tax credits to MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/231 "2018-08-02T14:29:51Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > I would advise you join the Republicans to protect US manufacturing, increase employment and opportunity and reduce the earned income and other tax credits to MAGA! As soon as the Republicans start doing those things, we’ll consider joining them. Meanwhile, the manufacturing sector has already taken a massive hit due to the trade sanctions and jobs are being lost. Perhaps you should empty the piss out of your own shoes first. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/232 "2018-08-02T14:44:21Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > I would advise you join the Republicans to protect US manufacturing, increase employment and opportunity and reduce the earned income and other tax credits to MAGA! Why didn’t you tell us you were a Putin Republican right from the beginning. Interesting how you point out the failure of the Soviet collective system while advocating for it with American farmers. Or is it that you just prefer that system under private oligarchic control? And then in the end your argument boils down to removing tax breaks that go directly to people while giving more welfare to the agricultural industry to guarantee their profits. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/233 "2018-08-02T17:30:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Why didn’t you tell us you were a Putin Republican right from the beginning. Interesting how you point out the failure of the Soviet collective system while advocating for it with American farmers. Or is it that you just prefer that system under private oligarchic control? And then in the end your argument boils down to removing tax breaks that go directly to people while giving more welfare to the agricultural industry to guarantee their profits. You are WRONG! Soviet collective system collapsed while American farm subsidy system has served well for 100 years. You are WRONG! I never advocated for more welfare for the agricultural industry I merely advocate for parity with individual subsidies [https://www.efile.com/tax-credit/federal-tax-credits/](https://www.efile.com/tax-credit/federal-tax-credits/) and I have promoted food price stability when the farm product is subject to world fluctuations in crop yields either due to weather or edict by the controlling governments. This is what Trump is getting at with respect to other industries where the controlling governments subsidize products to undercut the US product. Obama did it when he levied a tariff on Chinese dumping of solar cells. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. (PS that is a farm metaphor) The big difference is that Obama’s action pandered to his constituency while Trump is pandering to all of America. MAGA! The tax credits require that the tax payer purchase a qualifying product so the benefit is residual and minuscule while the bulk of the credit benefits the industry. > **[2023 & 2024 Energy Tax Credits & Energy Rebates Guide](https://20somethingfinance.com/energy-tax-credits/)** > > 2023 & 2024 energy tax credits & rebates guides: Residential Clean Energy Credit, Energy Efficient Home Improvement Credit, HEEHRA, & HOMES. You are WRONG there too. please try to keep up! I am beginning to believe the fist line of this song is true for you toward me > **[Ann Marie - Tripolar Lyrics | AZLyrics.com](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/annmarie/tripolar.html)** > > Ann Marie "Tripolar": I Mean I Just Don't Get It. How One Minute You Can Make Me Cry And You Can Make Me Smile And Turn Ar... Those that are tripolar should consult a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/234 "2018-08-02T18:01:10Z")
Obama’s tariff on Chinese dumping of solar cells was an abject failure and pretty much killed an entire US industry. Didn’t your mom warn you about when your Friends jump off a bridge. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/235 "2018-08-02T18:19:43Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > As soon as the Republicans start doing those things, we’ll consider joining them. Meanwhile, the manufacturing sector has already taken a massive hit due to the trade sanctions and jobs are being lost. Perhaps you should empty the piss out of your own shoes first. So you are the spokesperson for this Hood, Bro. Was the "We’ll " meant to intimidate me? cite please! " the manufacturing sector has already taken a massive hit due to the trade sanctions" Thanks for the gyrations. I will cite for you! This is the unemployment propaganda: [http://time.com/money/5322347/trump-tariffs-jobs/](http://time.com/money/5322347/trump-tariffs-jobs/) and there other media spewing the same crap! “The iconically American motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson also said on Monday it was moving some production operations overseas. And word spread that a Missouri nail manufacturer named Mid-Continent Nail just laid off 60 workers and could be out of business by the end of the summer.” Mid-Continent Nail petitioned for protection from Chinese dumping in 2013 and was denied by Obama presidential nominees. [https://www.usitc.gov/publications/701\_731/pub4442.pdf](https://www.usitc.gov/publications/701_731/pub4442.pdf) > **[United States International Trade Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_International_Trade_Commission)** > > The United States International Trade Commission (USITC or I.T.C.) is an agency of the United States federal government that advises the legislative and executive branches on matters of trade. It is an independent, bipartisan\[which?\]\[clarification needed\] entity that analyzes trade issues such as tariffs and competitiveness and publishes reports. As a quasi-judicial entity, the USITC investigates the impact of imports on U.S. industries, and directs actions against unfair trade practices, such Th... Harley-Davidson needed to open manufacturing in Europe and has been doing it for years! > **[Harley rumbles in Europe, but its 'made in America' message doesn't always...](https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/2018/06/26/harley-rumbles-europe-but-made-america-doesnt-always-resonate/734795002/)** > > Harley-Davidson embraces Europe, but some bikers there shrug off the brand. [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/harley-davidson-isnt-riding-off-to-europe-simply-because-of-the-trump-tariffs-2018-06-26](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/harley-davidson-isnt-riding-off-to-europe-simply-because-of-the-trump-tariffs-2018-06-26) TIME is synonym for propaganda! Sure there is going to be reshuffling of jobs. There is insufficient data to determine if there will be net gain or loss. Everything reported to date is chicken little the sky is falling crap which the dopers have swallowed hook, line, and sinker (PS. an aquaculture metaphor so I am not accused of a hijack)! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/236 "2018-08-02T18:24:32Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > You are WRONG! > Soviet collective system collapsed > while American farm subsidy system has served well for 100 years. Your syntax is very much like that of a Russian speaking English. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/237 "2018-08-02T18:51:39Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Obama’s tariff on Chinese dumping of solar cells was an abject failure and pretty much killed an entire US industry. Didn’t your mom warn you about when your Friends jump off a bridge. I could not expect anything less than failure for any of Obama’s actions. Well now with Trump’s pro business policies solar panel manufacturing is on come back. [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jinkosolar-florida-factory/chinas-jinko-to-produce-solar-panels-in-florida-by-fourth-quarter-despite-tariffs-idUSKBN1JF34P](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jinkosolar-florida-factory/chinas-jinko-to-produce-solar-panels-in-florida-by-fourth-quarter-despite-tariffs-idUSKBN1JF34P) Jump off the bridge naked, the skinny dipping is fine! ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/238 "2018-08-02T19:12:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Your syntax is very much like that of a Russian speaking English. Did you go to collage to know that? Seems when you can’t criticize the message then you at least can criticize the messenger. Superficial мелкий поверхностный пустой oberflächlich Shallow De Nada Спасибо Danke schön Merci Thank You ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/239 "2018-08-02T20:07:37Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > Did you go to collage to know that? > Seems when you can’t criticize the message then you at least can criticize the messenger. As a matter of fact I did not go to college because I’ve never needed someone tell me how to learn or think, and I know people from all over the world and can readily tell that English is not your first language. You are doing a terrible job presenting obvious propaganda that has little to with this discussion and the only consistent part of it is that you are promoting a socialist agenda for farmers and saying farms are not viable businesses. If you went to college you obviously didn’t study history because 100 years ago the US agricultural industry was on the verge of collapse, one of the precursors of the Great Depression. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/240 "2018-08-02T20:49:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > As a matter of fact I did not go to college because I’ve never needed someone tell me how to learn or think, and I know people from all over the world and can readily tell that English is not your first language. You are doing a terrible job presenting obvious propaganda that has little to with this discussion and the only consistent part of it is that you are promoting a socialist agenda for farmers and saying farms are not viable businesses. If you went to college you obviously didn’t study history because 100 years ago the US agricultural industry was on the verge of collapse, one of the precursors of the Great Depression. Which Franklin D. Roosevelt corrected with the new deal. > **[Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Adjustment_Act_of_1938)** > > The Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938 (Pub. L.Tooltip Public Law (United States) 75–430, 52 Stat. 31, enacted February 16, 1938) was legislation in the United States that was enacted as an alternative and replacement for the farm subsidy policies, in previous New Deal farm legislation (Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933), that had been found unconstitutional. The act revived the provisions in the previous Agriculture Adjustment Act, with the exception that the financing of the law's program... So it was 80 years ago, jesh! English is not the language I usually use, I talk mostly c#, PHP, Perl, C, C++, PLC ladder logic, BASH, Ruby, Python, calculus/differential equations, communications systems/digital circuits design, and integrated circuit/solid state physics design. I went to 18 schools in 12 years of grammar school, been in all the US states, been in all the Canadian provinces, lived and worked in US, Canada, S. Korea, Holland, and New Zealand. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering and am holder of 3 patents. I can talk using most of the English phonology found in the US. > **[North American English regional phonology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology)** > > North American English regional phonology is the study of variations in the pronunciation of spoken North American English (English of the United States and Canada)—what are commonly known simply as "regional accents". Though studies of regional dialects can be based on multiple characteristics, often including characteristics that are phonemic (sound-based, focusing on major word-differentiating patterns and structures in speech), phonetic (sound-based, focusing on any more exact and specific de... College is not about " how to learn or think" it is about actually gaining a marketable skill. I recommend you take a debate class or two while you are at the task of bettering yourself or go hoe the cotton! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=13)