# $12 Billion in Aid Going to Farmers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515 "2018-07-24T17:48:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/241 "2018-08-02T21:06:16Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > I recommend you take a debate class or two while you are at the task of bettering yourself or go hoe the cotton! This from the guy who think shouting “You are WRONG!” over and over is persuasive debate? I don’t know if you’re russian or martian, but I do know that you’re one of the least persuasive debaters I’ve seen here lately, based on style alone. Take a chill pill or something; you’re making us coders look bad (presuming you’re actually a coder). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/242 "2018-08-02T21:07:51Z")
Who hoe? He hoe? No, he _haw_! Know how? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/243 "2018-08-02T21:17:27Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > English is not the language I usually use, I talk mostly c#, PHP, Perl, C, C++, PLC ladder logic, BASH, Ruby, Python, calculus/differential equations, communications systems/digital circuits design, and integrated circuit/solid state physics design. You talk in programming languages more often than English? That seems unlikely unless you rarely speak in English at all. > [@](#): > > I went to 18 schools in 12 years of grammar school, been in all the US states, been in all the Canadian provinces, lived and worked in US, Canada, S. Korea, Holland, and New Zealand. > > I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering and am holder of 3 patents. Wowl I’m impressed. Surely, nobody on this board has an education or credentials that can match that. Clearly, you’re a beacon of intellect and education, and are correct in all things as a result. Out of curiosity, Mr. Expert Debater, how does holding patents relate to correctness? Does that mean if I hold 4 or more patents, then I’m more correct/smarter/something something than you? Or are you just trying to dazzle us with your CV? Funny, I don’t recall mentioning credentials as a particularly valid debate strategy (unless they are highly related to the subject and even then a pretty weak argument) but you know my education and credentials pale in comparison to yours, so I’m sure the debate team on which I was a member was also just a pale shadow to your debate experience. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/244 "2018-08-02T21:39:57Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > College is not about " how to learn or think" it is about actually gaining a marketable skill. College is about getting an education. Vocational schools are about gaining a marketable skill. Knowing the difference is part of being educated. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/245 "2018-08-02T21:40:09Z")
BeepKillBeep, Then why don’t you debate the thread topic! thank you burrunderthe saddle ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/246 "2018-08-02T21:41:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > College is about getting an education. Vocational schools are about gaining a marketable skill. Knowing the difference is part of being educated. Horse hockey! ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/247 "2018-08-02T21:47:33Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > This from the guy who think shouting “You are WRONG!” over and over is persuasive debate? > > I don’t know if you’re russian or martian, but I do know that you’re one of the least persuasive debaters I’ve seen here lately, based on style alone. Take a chill pill or something; you’re making us coders look bad (presuming you’re actually a coder). if(answer == false) { } else { } ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/248 "2018-08-02T21:50:24Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > BeepKillBeep, > > Then why don’t you debate the thread topic! > > thank you > burrunderthe saddle No, you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/249 "2018-08-02T21:54:54Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > This from the guy who think shouting “You are WRONG!” over and over is persuasive debate? > > I don’t know if you’re russian or martian, but I do know that you’re one of the least persuasive debaters I’ve seen here lately, based on style alone. Take a chill pill or something; you’re making us coders look bad (presuming you’re actually a coder). Wasting time in your cubical. for(i=0;i\ **Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/250 "2018-08-02T22:00:51Z") > [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > Wasting time in your cubical. > > for(i=0;i\ String nextpoint = quote\*; > if(answer == false) { > Console.WriteLine(“Your WRONG!”); > } else { > proceed\_with\_debate(nextpoint); > } > } > > Yours truely > Fellow geek-a-zoid! So you are as bad at programming as you are at debate? Oh wait, I see it. It is using Trump supporter logic. The variable answer must be a global static const bool set to false. I.e. you don’t assess statements, you just assume they are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/251 "2018-08-02T22:00:52Z")
We should thank our spikey friend for pointing out the environmental harm promoted by agricultural price supports. Even beyond that associated with having more arable land. He correctly points out that a good portion of those crops are going to animal feed, thus increasing harmful emissions and runoff by lowering prices and encouraging excess consumption. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/252 "2018-08-02T22:22:12Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > We should thank our spikey friend for pointing out the environmental harm promoted by agricultural price supports. Even beyond that associated with having more arable land. He correctly points out that a good portion of those crops are going to animal feed, thus increasing harmful emissions and runoff by lowering prices and encouraging excess consumption. Wow the issues are staggering cow flatulence (unregulated, contribution to global warming is not quantified) Runoff (regulated) Obesity (root cause unclear) arable land (a fixed quantity, Non sequitur as stated. The sentence needs more meat.) > **[Farming Animals Is A Major Form of Food Waste](https://awellfedworld.org/feed-ratios/)** > > Animals used for meat, dairy & eggs consume far more food than they produce. > **[Feed conversion ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio)** > > In animal husbandry, feed conversion ratio (FCR) or feed conversion rate is a ratio or rate measuring of the efficiency with which the bodies of livestock convert animal feed into the desired output. For dairy cows, for example, the output is milk, whereas in animals raised for meat (such as beef cows, pigs, chickens, and fish) the output is the flesh, that is, the body mass gained by the animal, represented either in the final mass of the animal or the mass of the dressed output. FCR is the Fe... ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/253 "2018-08-02T22:49:02Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > Wasting time in your cubical. > > for(i=0;i\ String nextpoint = quote\*; > if(answer == false) { > Console.WriteLine(“Your WRONG!”); > } else { > proceed\_with\_debate(nextpoint); > } > } > > Yours truely > Fellow geek-a-zoid! Haven’t debated much, have you? if (posterisajerk) { TearApartTheirManyObviousErrors(); } else { if (posterhasapoint) { DebatePoint(); } } Also it hurts my soul to write code without indents. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/254 "2018-08-02T22:50:29Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > Wasting time in your cubical. > > for(i=0;i\ String nextpoint = quote\*; > if(answer == false) { > Console.WriteLine(“Your WRONG!”); > } else { > proceed\_with\_debate(nextpoint); > } > } > > Yours truely > Fellow geek-a-zoid! Bad fake code and debating skills aside, you also misspelled “cubicle” and “truly”. [Non scholae sed vitae discimus.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21124321&postcount=244) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/255 "2018-08-03T05:40:16Z")
> [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > I recommend you take a debate class or two while you are at the task of bettering yourself or go hoe the cotton! Do not tell people to go hoe cotton. > [@burrunderthe\_saddle](#): > > if(answer == false) { > > } else { > } Knock off this crap. Unless a thread is talking about code, if you post any gibberish code garbage you will get a warning. * * * The rest of everyone else - Stick to debate and dial back the personalization. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/256 "2018-08-03T09:25:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Do not tell people to go hoe cotton. I’ll take “Instructions I Never Expected To See In A Mod Note” for $200, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/257 "2018-08-03T11:17:33Z")
Our friend under the saddle may only be aware of the common definition of “arable” we learned in grade school, but I’m sure the rest of you are aware that, when dealing with land use statistics, it refers to land under production, not land capable of it. Despite our best efforts to prop up rich farmers and production of food we don’t need, that has been decreasing in the US: > **[Arable land (% of land area) | Data](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.ARBL.ZS)** > > Arable land (% of land area) from The World Bank: Data He also apparently thinks that it’s cow farts that are the major livestock emissions contributor. No, it’s mostly eructations, followed by manure emissions. All well quantified by our dear America-greatening president’s EPA in their annual GHG inventory report. [https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-and-sinks](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/inventory-us-greenhouse-gas-emissions-and-sinks) And Trump’s NOAA has determined that the Gulf of Mexico’s dead zone, caused by agricultural runoff, is the biggest it’s ever been: > **[Gulf of Mexico ‘dead zone’ is the largest ever measured](https://www.noaa.gov/media-release/gulf-of-mexico-dead-zone-is-largest-ever-measured)** > > June outlook foretold New Jersey-sized area of low oxygen But keep boosting those soybean prices! We started exporting even more than we consume domestically just a few years back. Cut production in half and we’ll still have plenty to go round. ---
**Author:** ![burrunderthe\_saddle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@burrunderthe\_saddle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burrunderthe_saddle)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/258 "2018-08-03T13:47:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > As soon as the Republicans start doing those things, we’ll consider joining them. Meanwhile, the manufacturing sector has already taken a massive hit due to the trade sanctions and jobs are being lost. Perhaps you should empty the piss out of your own shoes first. WRONG again Gyrate! 7:48AM today The U.S. unemployment rate fell to 3.9% as employers added 157,000 workers, slightly less than expected. Still, hiring was brisk in sectors, including manufacturing, construction, as well as professional business services. Wages rose modestly for the month and are up 2.7% year-over-year. More on this story: [Monthly jobs growth disappoints, jobless rate meets expectations | Fox Business](https://fxn.ws/2LMxjHD) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/259 "2018-08-03T13:55:47Z")
That is correct. Both manufacturering employment and real output have been increasing since 2010. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/260 "2018-08-03T14:10:46Z")
Yes, but wage growth is still nearly non-existent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=14)