# $12 Billion in Aid Going to Farmers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515 "2018-07-24T17:48:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/21 "2018-07-25T00:57:47Z")
Sucking at the government teat. Pretty soon the Republican party will be asking for welfare program cuts to pay for the trade war. Wait, [already have some calls](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/01/gop-eyes-post-tax-cut-changes-to-welfare-medicare-and-social-security/?utm_term=.d0dff77ff276) to cut welfare owing to the job creating tax cut we had. Just need v2 and include trade war costs. “House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America’s deficit.” ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/22 "2018-07-25T00:59:10Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > What does everyone think about the $12 billion in aid that will be going to farmers hurt by the tariffs? > > I’m against that. First, since trade wars are good and easy to win, the farmers shouldn’t need any help. Second, that’s $12 billion that could be used elsewhere – pay down debt, education, student loan relief, health care. Third, it’s such a transparent ploy to help his supporters. > > When is Trump going to understand that he represents the whole country, not just his voters? (Answer, of course, is never – he really only represents himself anyway) I’m not in favor of the farmers getting the money and no hijack intended but I see things like student loan relief as exactly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/23 "2018-07-25T01:21:15Z")
More payouts to red state welfare queens… ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/24 "2018-07-25T01:24:01Z")
Farmers complaining their welfare package isn’t large enough: > **['A Band-Aid on a broken leg': Farmers say Trump's aid package isn't enough |...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/farmers-operatives-politics-trump-farm-aid-package/index.html)** > > The Trump administration's move on Tuesday to help farmers hurt by the trade wars has not stopped the barrage of criticism it has faced over its underlying trade policy. My favorite quote from that article: “Not many people would like it if they took $50,000 away from their business when it is something that they didn’t have anything to do with” Who do you think those farmers voted for? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/25 "2018-07-25T01:25:50Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > I never want to hear another Republican grouse about welfare spending. Credit where credit is due - at least some Republicans lawmakers are [grousing about this on principle](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/24/trump-farmers-bailout-reaction-republicans-congress-737517). Whether that ends up making any difference we’ll have to see( I kinda doubt it ). Republicans in congress are currently playing the pragmatic card given Trump’s popularity with the base. But I fully expect many of them to very quietly and very privately cheer whenever he finally ends up out of office. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/26 "2018-07-25T01:41:47Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m against that. First, since trade wars are good and easy to win, the farmers shouldn’t need any help. Second, that’s $12 billion that could be used elsewhere – pay down debt, education, student loan relief, health care. Third, it’s such a transparent ploy to help his supporters. Why should students get debt relief? If one takes out a loan, one pays it back. Being a student has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/27 "2018-07-25T01:43:50Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Farmers complaining their welfare package isn’t large enough: > > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/farmers-operatives-politics-trump-farm-aid-package/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/farmers-operatives-politics-trump-farm-aid-package/index.html) > > My favorite quote from that article: > > “Not many people would like it if they took $50,000 away from their business when it is something that they didn’t have anything to do with” > > Who do you think those farmers voted for? :smack: I think every report like this should have the reporter ask the person “Who did you vote for?” and “Do you blame Trump for this?” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/28 "2018-07-25T01:45:09Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > “House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America’s deficit.” You mean your deficit, Mr. Speaker? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/29 "2018-07-25T01:54:23Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Who do you think those farmers voted for? :smack: Despite Trump causing these problems farmers (at least some) are still behind Trump. > [@](#): > > \*\*Texas Farmers are Fed Up With Trump’s Trade War, but Most Stop Short of Blaming Him > \*\* > > Russell Boening, a Texas farmer and rancher who’s also president of the Texas Farm Bureau, is starting to feel the effects of escalating trade conflicts between the United States and its trading partners, namely China. In response to tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum enacted by the Trump administration earlier this year, China has placed its own tariffs on a litany of U.S. farm products. > > \ > > But Boening stopped short of blaming the Trump administration for the tight spot that he and other Texas farmers have been put in. > > \ > > Instead of using Wednesday’s venue to criticize the president, Boening told Congress that farmers “must commend President Trump for working to solve problems that have existed for decades,” pointing to China’s illegal crop subsidies that undercut the global market. He then implored the administration to take into account the fact that “these decisions have the ability to greatly damage our livelihoods.” > > SOURCE: [Texas Farmers are Fed Up With Trump’s Trade War, but Most Stop Short of Blaming Him](https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-farmers-are-fed-up-with-trumps-trade-war-but-most-stop-short-of-blaming-him/) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/30 "2018-07-25T02:09:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why should students get debt relief? If one takes out a loan, one pays it back. Being a student has nothing to do with it. Fair enough. Why should student loans be the only loans that are [nearly impossible to discharge through bankruptcy](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-fix-the-bankruptcy-system-for-student-loan-borrowers-2018-05-25)? ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/31 "2018-07-25T02:33:13Z")
It’s yet another example of how Trump is a big-government guy. His ACA attacks have actually resulted in more premium subsidies than under the previous administration. Say what you want about his immigration policies, but they resulted in more children being separated from their parents & put in internment facilities. Now his trade war is resulting in, I guess, these transfer payments going to farmers. And let’s not forget what his tax cuts are doing to the federal budget. Huge deficits. More spending. Bigger government. Donald “Tariffs are Great” Trump. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/32 "2018-07-25T03:07:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Despite Trump causing these problems farmers (at least some) are still behind Trump. ‘I never thought leopards would eat MY face,’ sobs deplorable farmer who voted for the Leopards Eating People’s Faces Party. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/33 "2018-07-25T06:53:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why should students get debt relief? If one takes out a loan, one pays it back. Being a student has nothing to do with it. I agree. Farmers should be the same way with planting loans, without annual assistance from the government. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/34 "2018-07-25T07:04:43Z")
Verily, He does taketh away with one tiny hand (lost revenue via trade war), and with the other tiny hand he doth also take away from diminishing funds. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/35 "2018-07-25T07:05:36Z")
> [@chisquirrel](#): > > i agree. Farmers should be the same way with planting loans, without annual assistance from the government. iswydt… :d ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/36 "2018-07-25T07:57:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fair enough. > > Why should student loans be the only loans that are [nearly impossible to discharge through bankruptcy](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-fix-the-bankruptcy-system-for-student-loan-borrowers-2018-05-25)? Besides a student loan, what other type of loan doesn’t require collateral? If one has a morgage/home equity loan or an auto loan and goes through bankruptcy, the house or vehicle goes to the entity who made the loan. If one has a student loan and goes through bankruptcy, what does the loaning entity get? If student loans are dischargable through bankruptcy, it’s likely there would be fewer made as they would be riskier for the entities making them. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/37 "2018-07-25T08:02:04Z")
I’ll admit it’s possible this is possibly an ironic whoosh but: > [@RitterSport](#): > > First, since trade wars are good and easy to win, the farmers shouldn’t need any help.) That’s partially right, they are easy to start. They might take a generation to unwind, nobody wins [apart from BigAg who are trousering the subsidy, but appreciate the help] and consequently they aren’t good. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/38 "2018-07-25T11:25:18Z")
I think that prospective recipients will have to fill out a questionnaire to make sure the $12 billion is targeted where it’s needed most. Trump University graduates were not given their diplomas until they signed a form admitting that their Trump U. education was the best education ever. Similarly the beneficiaries of Trump’s Ag-MAGA will need correct answers to questions. I assume the most stable genius ever will have questions a little more subtle than “Who did you vote for?” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/39 "2018-07-25T11:41:52Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > I’ll admit it’s possible this is possibly an ironic whoosh but: > That’s partially right, they are easy to start. > They might take a generation to unwind, nobody wins [apart from BigAg who are trousering the subsidy, but appreciate the help] and consequently they aren’t good. Trump said that trade wars were easy to win. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/40 "2018-07-25T12:35:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why should students get debt relief? If one takes out a loan, one pays it back. Being a student has nothing to do with it. There are a number of for-profit universities that have essentially defrauded students into taking out loans and using Federal student aid to pay for worthless educations. A number of these scam colleges went bankrupt, leaving students in a lurch: lots of debt, no ability to finish their degrees without transferring to another university and extending their studies, sometimes by years (and tens of thousands of dollars more). These for-profit colleges, by the way, are typically 80-90% dependent on taxpayer funded Federal aid, and your favorite Secretary of Education is a huge supporter of them. Forgiveness of debt accumulated for worthless colleges that have filed all chapters of double-dog bankruptcy is a very, very reasonable thing to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=3)