# $12 Billion in Aid Going to Farmers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515 "2018-07-24T17:48:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/101 "2018-07-26T10:05:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes he’s the 44th president to have done something anti-capitalist. In terms of purity, I must applaud youd ideology; I thought it was only anarchomarxists whose ideology was so pure as to br functionally impossible to implement. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I would argue that the free market outcome is always optimal by this arbitrary metric: minimized government initiation of force. > > What arbitrary metric do you choose? I honestly wish I could pick you up, hand of god style, and put you in a failed state like Iraq or Somalia. A few years there might disabuse you of this ridiculous notion that minimizing government intervention is an end unto itself worth pursuing. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/102 "2018-07-26T10:25:17Z")
I demand that the farmers submit to drug testing and be required to work or volunteer for 80 hours per month before they get those welfare checks. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/103 "2018-07-26T10:58:46Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The fields can’t just lay fallow, not with increased weather due to climate change. I’m pretty sure we have the same amount of weather, climate change or no. Maybe not the same _kind_ of weather, but definitely the same amount. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/104 "2018-07-26T12:04:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I demand that the farmers submit to drug testing and be required to work or volunteer for 80 hours per month before they get those welfare checks. This is a good point and I appreciate the sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/105 "2018-07-26T14:40:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I demand that the farmers submit to drug testing and be required to work or volunteer for 80 hours per month before they get those welfare checks. > [@bobot](#): > > This is a good point and I appreciate the sarcasm. Aye; I’ll be asking about the drug testing whenever this is brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/106 "2018-07-26T16:18:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I demand that the farmers submit to drug testing and be required to work or volunteer for 80 hours per month before they get those welfare checks. I am reasonably certain that the farmers are putting in more than 80 hours a month. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/107 "2018-07-26T16:21:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I demand that the farmers submit to drug testing and be required to work or volunteer for 80 hours per month before they get those welfare checks. I’d agree with you if they weren’t ya know, farming … ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/108 "2018-07-26T16:33:35Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I’d agree with you if they weren’t ya know, farming … Why can’t farmers take drug tests? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/109 "2018-07-26T16:39:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why can’t farmers take drug tests? They get lost at the lab looking for the outhouse. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/110 "2018-07-26T17:16:51Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I am reasonably certain that the farmers are putting in more than 80 hours a month. Maybe they are, but they should have to jump through the same hoops that any other welfare recipient does. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/111 "2018-07-26T18:03:10Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Can we get back to discussing the merits of this? Does anyone want to defend this wealth transfer from taxpayers to farmers due to a ridiculous trade war with these foreseeable consequences? Where are the usual Trump fans? Will the $12 billion primarily help low-income small farmers and share-croppers? Or would I be correct to assume the money will go to Big Agro corporations and millionaire land owners? Or will the reality be the latter, with the Lie Machine pretending it’s the former? I think the taxpayers should pay $2 billion to Trump and a quarter of that to Pence if they promise to resign and turn the White House over to Nancy Pelosi(!) next January. MUCH cheaper than putting up with these shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/112 "2018-07-26T18:20:22Z")
I’m also thinking that if anybody knew when Il Douche was going to make news that might drastically affect the soybean market…hence, soybean futures as an investment vehicle…they would be in a position to grasp a tidy profit. A handsome profit. Ka-ching! Even more if they knew when he was going to back-peddle, and do it again in reverse. Oh, how the money rolls in, rolls in. Of course, such a scheme would be highly unethical, and maybe even illegal! And, only the President itself would know! A man of unimpeachable integrity in matters of finance. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/113 "2018-07-26T18:21:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Maybe they are, but they should have to jump through the same hoops that any other welfare recipient does. So we require all welfare recipients to go through drug testing and work a minimum of a 40 hr week (complete with w-2 earnings statements and tax payment receipts)? I’m on board, where do I sign? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/114 "2018-07-26T18:23:30Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > So we require all welfare recipients to go through drug testing and work a minimum of a 40 hr week (complete with w-2 earnings statements and tax payment receipts)? I’m on board, where do I sign? No, we don’t actually require all welfare recipients to go through drug testing and work a minimum of a 40 hr week. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/115 "2018-07-26T18:23:57Z")
Don’t blame me, I voted for Grinch! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/116 "2018-07-26T19:04:51Z")
Of course, since almost all of the $12B in farm welfare is going to Big Agra, they are the one’s that need to be drug tested. Starting at the top. They don’t get a dime until _every single person working for the company in any fashion_ passes a drug test. Screw you, Archer Daniels Midland. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/117 "2018-07-26T19:34:13Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > So we require all welfare recipients to go through drug testing Yes, in fifteen states, Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia and Wisconsin. So, we should limit the requirements to just those states. > [@](#): > > and work a minimum of a 40 hr week (complete with w-2 earnings statements and tax payment receipts)? You messed up your math there. 80 hours per month is not 40 hours per week. > [@](#): > > I’m on board, where do I sign? Vote republican. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/118 "2018-07-26T20:44:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, in fifteen states, Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia and Wisconsin. So, we should limit the requirements to just those states. > > You messed up your math there. 80 hours per month is not 40 hours per week. > Vote republican. There was no math involved actually. I was extrapolating to what the farmers do (or don’t) to what welfare recipients do (or don’t) Farmers (work) quite a bit more than 80 hrs a month to produce something (most times) Welfare recipients are required to work or volunteer 80 hrs a month? That is a question since I honestly do not know. Someone found it funny enough to try and equate the 2, I’m just trying to get a direct comparison of the two. So that I can agree to drug testing for both groups. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/119 "2018-07-26T21:02:04Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > There was no math involved actually. I was extrapolating to what the farmers do (or don’t) to what welfare recipients do (or don’t) Oh, you had responded directly to this post: > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I demand that the farmers submit to drug testing and be required to work or volunteer for 80 hours per month before they get those welfare checks. So, I though that that was where you got the numbers. > [@](#): > > Farmers (work) quite a bit more than 80 hrs a month to produce something (most times) Many of us do. I put in more than that a week, where’s my bailout? > [@](#): > > Welfare recipients are required to work or volunteer 80 hrs a month? That is a question since I honestly do not know. [Yes](https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/able-bodied-adults-without-dependents-abawds) > [@](#): > > Someone found it funny enough to try and equate the 2, I’m just trying to get a direct comparison of the two. So that I can agree to drug testing for both groups. I disagree for drug testing for receiving assistance, not least of which, it costs far more money to administer the tests than is saved by denying benefits to poor families. However, if the people have spoken in these states, and insist that drug testing is mandatory in order to receive govt assistance, then it should be across the board, and not just upon the most marginalized of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515/120 "2018-07-27T00:23:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Maybe they are, but they should have to jump through the same hoops that any other welfare recipient does. You ever worked a farm? Neither have I. But my grandfather did and I saw what it was like. Hard goddamned work from dawn to dusk. Is that enough of a hoop to jump through? But we might consider the affects that hurting farmers may have on other aspects of society. Like day laborers, truckers, grocery stores, restaurants, all the other businesses that those buy shit from, and of course, you and me paying more for our food. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-billion-in-aid-going-to-farmers/818515.md?page=7)