# 12 people shot dead at BATMAN movie screening in Denver. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 20, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835 "2012-07-20T09:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/341 "2012-07-23T17:21:30Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Just saw his appearance in court. He seemed very dazed. Which goes along with the Alex Jones theory. He was drugged and given amnesia. It was actually a special forces black ops guy that did the shooting. Because Obama wants to sign the UN small arms treaty and take your guns. I really hate that fucker. For those that don’t know Alex he is not a right wing nut. He was all in on George Bush conspiracies too. He pushes every CT and preys on the weak and deluded. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/342 "2012-07-23T17:28:30Z")
I saw the photos of him and had a hard time getting angry. He’s beyond bizarre. If he had been taken out in the gunfight, I would not have cared. But since I’m against the death penalty, I can’t help but to hope he escapes it. Colorado hasn’t given anyone the death penalty for fifteen years and we’ve suffered some grisly murders. I think justice can be done without it. [This](http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21137973/dad-colorado-victim-stares-at-suspect-court) story was sad. Well, they all are, but pregnant ladies and babies trip me up. > [@](#): > > David Sanchez, who waited outside the courthouse during Holmes’ hearing, said his pregnant daughter escaped uninjured but her husband was shot in the head and was in critical condition. His daughter was delivering their baby on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/343 "2012-07-23T17:37:03Z")
I’m generally anti-death penalty on the grounds that too many innocent people have been executed, not out of any moral qualms. In cases like, say, John Wayne Gacy, where there’s simply zero room for doubt and the circumstances are over-the-top grisly, good riddance. If they’re not going to use the death penalty for someone like this guy, then honestly, it really is time to abolish it completely (assuming he’s not found to be insane). ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/344 "2012-07-23T17:42:48Z")
How could he be remotely sane?! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/345 "2012-07-23T17:43:21Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I saw the photos of him and had a hard time getting angry. Yea, we’ll know more once his case moves along, but assuming he’s schizophrenic, I can’t really feel anything but pity. I used to work in a psyche-ward, and as bizarre as schizophrenic delusions sound, there isn’t any doubt that the people that suffer from them believe them completely. If anything, its kind of a horrifying thought that he might regain enough lucidity once they start giving him meds to comprehend what he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/346 "2012-07-23T17:49:23Z")
He looks pretty crazy to me, but I’m no doctor. I’ll let the doctors decide his sanity. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/347 "2012-07-23T18:01:28Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > How could he be remotely sane?! This is just idle speculation, but … I suspect actually, that he is sane. My first thought was schizophrenia, but there’s no evidence of that in his behavior before or after. I think, rather, that he’s a loner who has a hard time connecting emotionally with others. He’s smart, so he’s learned how to go through the motions to get along, but it’s hard work. He’s also accustomed to being the smartest guy in the room which adds to his alienation. At the same time, I think he’s led a very sheltered life and is a somewhat naive. I suspect that in his isolation he managed to construct a delusional fantasy about being a mastermind: _I’m smarter than everyone else, and I’m only playing by their rules because I want to. I can stop playing by their rules anytime I want. What would that feel like … to stop following the rules and do whatever I want?_ I don’t think he’s crazy. I think he rationalized himself into a horrible delusion. And I think right now the reality of what he’s done is crashing in on him. I suspect that living in prison for the next 40 years will be hell for him. Which he deserves. On the other hand, it may just be cheaper to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/348 "2012-07-23T18:01:53Z")
If this guy is found to be incompetent to stand trial due to mental issues, all hell is going to break loose. Apparently, every whackaloon is taking this tragedy as an opportunity to spread their own personal pet conspiracy theory for publicity’s sake. Mike Adams and Alex Jones are both claiming it’s a staged event to begin overturning the Second Amendment, Tim Bolen is claiming that the shooter must have been vaccine-damaged, and Joe Scarborough just this morning stated that the shooter must be on the autism spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/349 "2012-07-23T18:06:04Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > If this guy is found to be incompetent to stand trial due to mental issues, all hell is going to break loose. > > Apparently, every whackaloon is taking this tragedy as an opportunity to spread their own personal pet conspiracy theory for publicity’s sake. Mike Adams and Alex Jones are both claiming it’s a staged event to begin overturning the Second Amendment, Tim Bolen is claiming that the shooter must have been vaccine-damaged, and Joe Scarborough just this morning stated that the shooter must be on the autism spectrum. Respectfully disagree. I don’t think CT’s go as far as we fear. Not really. Truthers and Birthers are on a national level, but this will be out of people’s minds in a couple of weeks. The local political fallout I can see - so I assume they’ll ask for the death penalty - but they have to get there first. I have no idea who those gentlemen are that you mentioned and I’m pretty well-read, but I stay out of CT threads and discussions. I think most Americans are the same way. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/350 "2012-07-23T18:07:43Z")
I saw video of him at CNN. He doesn’t act as though the elevator goes to the top floor. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/351 "2012-07-23T18:09:51Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Respectfully disagree. I don’t think CT’s go as far as we fear. Not really. Truthers and Birthers are on a national level, but this will be out of people’s minds in a couple of weeks. > > The local political fallout I can see - so I assume they’ll ask for the death penalty - but they have to get there first. > > I have no idea who those gentlemen are that you mentioned and I’m pretty well-read, but I stay out of CT threads and discussions. I think most Americans are the same way. I think you’re wrong. This is guns and possibly neuroscience research and guns and maybe autism (caused by vaccines) and guns and mental illness pleas and guns. It may not reach the level of the Truthers/Birthers, but it’ll become a part of the stable of CTs that get routinely trotted out regarding any of those issues. And Joe Scarborough is a morning host on MSNBC, so whether or not you know who he is, he’s not exactly an unknown figure in American TV. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/352 "2012-07-23T18:13:40Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m generally anti-death penalty on the grounds that too many innocent people have been executed, not out of any moral qualms. As am I. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > In cases like, say, John Wayne Gacy, where there’s simply zero room for doubt and the circumstances are over-the-top grisly, good riddance. Surely everyone who votes the kill the guy in a trial believes there is “zero room for doubt.” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/353 "2012-07-23T18:28:00Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m generally anti-death penalty on the grounds that too many innocent people have been executed, not out of any moral qualms. In cases like, say, John Wayne Gacy, where there’s simply zero room for doubt and the circumstances are over-the-top grisly, good riddance. If they’re not going to use the death penalty for someone like this guy, then honestly, it really is time to abolish it completely (assuming he’s not found to be insane). I’m generally anti-death penalty on moral grounds but I’d be willing to flex on folks like Gacy. But this guy–the actions alone are so over-the top as to almost guarantee he was a loony. Serial killer types express an array of intimately, personally evil behavior repeated over long periods of time. This Joker, though, was different. The scenario didn’t depend on him actually seeing the result of what he was doing, he wasn’t slowly pulling out people’s eyes and biting them off the stalks, he was shooting into an object (essentially into a smoke screen, behind which were screams)–no intimacy with the victims. When confronted, he made no attempt to escape or mislead law enforcement or in any other way evade arrest as far as I know. Whatever his motivation, he knew he needed to be arrested, at least after the fact, and that it was right he should be arrested. My point: bad behavior with recognition it was bad, if not remorse. He needs to be removed, but he’s not demonstrated by this single action that he lacks humanity. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/354 "2012-07-23T18:56:51Z")
Two things shout out at me: 1. His decision to withdraw from classes a few weeks ago. 2. His decision to tell police officers that his apartment was booby trapped. Both seem like positive indicators for sanity. I hinted at this earlier, but it boggles my mind that someone capable of this could be rational enough to formally withdraw from classes. I mean, if you’re planning to execute innocent people in a few weeks, why bother to withdraw? What is the reasoning for telling the cops that his apartment was rigged with explosives? Is it because they spoke to him face-to-face and that led him to take mercy on them? Was it his way of thanking them for taking him alive? Very, very disturbing case. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/355 "2012-07-23T19:50:54Z")
Just to play amateur psychologist: > [@PunditLisa](#): > > Two things shout out at me: > > 1. His decision to withdraw from classes a few weeks ago. Not sure that’s really a sign that he was planning the attack that far out. Seems possible he withdrew due to a deteriorating mental condition which then later caused his attack. As you say, withdrawing from classes doesn’t really do him any good from a “sane” perspective: no ones going to care that he missed his midterms once he’s murdered twelve people. > [@](#): > > 1. His decision to tell police officers that his apartment was booby trapped. Setting booby traps seems to be not uncommon for [people with paranoid delusions](http://articles.courant.com/2000-08-04/news/0008040055_1_edward-premo-state-police-insanity). Seems possible the traps weren’t really part of any overarching plan for his attack, but just something he’d set up in his apartment to defend himself against whatever enemies he imagined he had. I’m just guessing from the tidbits in the news, of course. Between the defence and prosecution, I’m sure he’ll be examined by half the shrinks in Colorado and then we’ll know one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/356 "2012-07-23T19:53:43Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > How could he be remotely sane?! _ **Legal** _ insanity is often a different matter from what we commonly call insanity. Our criminal justice system is based on the presumption that people have free will and are morally responsible for their actions. The courts have consistantly ruled that sociopathy or personality disorders aren’t legal insanity- insane _motives_ aren’t legal insanity. The rule is generally that a person must either have been unable to understand his actions, or that he felt compelled by an “irresistable impulse”. In general, if someone is obviously gibberingly insane, they’re usually found incompetent to stand trial- the standard there being if they are incapable of assisting in their own defense. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/357 "2012-07-23T20:04:24Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > What is the reasoning for telling the cops that his apartment was rigged with explosives? I am not a psycho killer but I have exhibited delusional behavior in the past. This dude is just some guy in the news, so nobody here really knows what his deal is, but I can tell you delusion can become an obsession and an irresistable compulsion. You know you’re right, you know a certain action needs to be taken or that you just really want to do this one little thing–no harm in it, right? A part of you might object: no, don’t screw that woman/steal that thing/send that email/post that post, etc. but it is easily drowned out by the relentless drive that comes from an obsession. It’s terrifying, you’re at your wit’s end, and eventually you’re completely helpless and miserable, unable to focus on anything else. Once the deed is done: release (think about what your sex drive does after you finally get a piece). The mental noise stops and you find yourself in a very awkward situation. The drives that got you to where you are are all gone, you have no way to explain yourself because even you don’t believe you should have done what you did, that’s followed swiftly by guilt/humiliation/embarassment which can take on another life all its own and next thing you know you really _are_ on the freeway pushing 100 and looking for just the right barrier while screaming at yourself like two separate people–both presenting very logical arguments about why you should/shouldn’t snuff it. But back to release. After the initial carnage I could totally see hating the sonofabitch (me) that just ran amok in the theatre. I could see cooperating to get me put away and to keep anyone else from getting hurt. I don’t read this guy as sane in the least. Periodically lucid, perhaps, but by no means has he mastered himself to the point where he can guarantee safe behavior. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/358 "2012-07-23T20:35:04Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > The youngest son of an old and dear family we’ve been close to for fourty years now was in the Aurora theater with two of his four kids. Gordon Cowden is gone and once again the world makes no sense. He, like his parents, brothers and sister is, or now was, just an incredibly strong, gentle, admirable person. Quiet, unassuming but with a wonderful sense of humor and intellect. His family writes that he was a true Texas gentleman and always intent on doing the right thing no matter the issue or cost. That’s about as well put as it can be and his loss is a painful thing to behold. You’ll probably hear the least about him as they’re private, quiet people but for those of us that knew him and know what the undeserving family must now face, the pain goes to our very soul and beyond. I’ll be at the funeral Friday. I don’t expect it will answer any questions or heal any wounds but I do think the strength of all the others there will allow us to focus on all that was so good and admirable in him and give focus to what is worthy of trying to emmulate. Gordon’s death is an enormous loss to everyone that knew him and finding where to put that, making sense of why he’s gone is something we may struggle with for years to come if not forever. It’s almost impossible to process the fact he’s > just one of so many taken from us Saturday morning. lieu, please extend our sympathies to his family. may his memory be eternal. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/359 "2012-07-23T20:42:32Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Setting booby traps seems to be not uncommon for [people with paranoid delusions](http://articles.courant.com/2000-08-04/news/0008040055_1_edward-premo-state-police-insanity). Seems possible the traps weren’t really part of any overarching plan for his attack, but just something he’d set up in his apartment to defend himself against whatever enemies he imagined he had. While always possible, I think the fact he left the apartment unlocked and had loud music start playing around the time he left indicates he was trying to lure someone to open the door and set off a massive explosion. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835/360 "2012-07-23T20:44:16Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I’m generally anti-death penalty on the grounds that too many innocent people have been executed, not out of any moral qualms. In cases like, say, John Wayne Gacy, where there’s simply zero room for doubt and the circumstances are over-the-top grisly, good riddance. If they’re not going to use the death penalty for someone like this guy, then honestly, it really is time to abolish it completely (assuming he’s not found to be insane). i believe that a concrete cell at florence for life is a good sentence. the death penalty is rather cruel to the families of victims. years and years of court appearances, time, and going through testimony over and over, it can take years, decades even. put him in a cell in florence, toss the key, and never hear his name again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-people-shot-dead-at-batman-movie-screening-in-denver/628835.md?page=19)