# 12 percent of all black males in the US between ages 20-39 are in jail **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008 "2003-04-07T04:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/41 "2003-04-09T13:44:14Z")
I don’t think it’s a matter of where you buy and sell the drugs, it’s what you do to get the money to buy the drugs. Mr. Rich White Businessman just peels off a roll of bills to pay his dealer, but Mr. Black Inner City may have to knock off a liquor store to keep his habit going. So Mr. Businessman is only risking prison when he makes the purchase, Mr. Inner City is risking the same plus the risks inherent with the other crimes he is committing. I would like to see statistics for incarceration as a function of social-economic status, my guess is that you’d see similar overrepresentation in prisons from the poorer population simply because more of them see crime as an economic necessity. To be sure, some of the racial disparity in prison is due to racism in some police and court jurisdictions. How much is racism and how much is economic based is anybody’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/42 "2003-04-09T14:05:23Z")
[In this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154162&highlight=leaders) I attempted to call attention to the lack of black leaders as a reason for many of their problems. ## To quote my OP; "U.S. Black leaders? The democratic party is typically the party that is associated with the blacks and the minorities. This being the case, why hasn`t the party offered up a credible leader who is black? The black leaders who have made headlines don`t seem to be concerned with addressing the problems within the black inner cities. We have an unusually high percentage of single moms, unemployment, drug use and criminal activity within the inner cities where many of the black population resides. Seems instead of directly dealing with the problems and working with the black community to solve the core issues the so-called leaders are more apt to blame others for the problems in the black communtiy. When are we going to see someone step forward and shift the responsibilty of correcting the problems in the inner cities to the people responsible for committing the acts rather than blame others for them? Jackson and Sharpton seem to be settling with the “blame others” technique rather than attempting to solve the problems from the inside out. I do not consider them to be leaders. More like trouble makers or exthortionists if anything. When is the democratic party going to put forth a credible black leader who will tackle the problems directly and be honest with the inner city blacks as to what can be done to correct their problems? So far pointing fingers and creating black on white racial discrimination isn`t helping. ## As a note: I am not black, but I grew up in the inner city." When people (of any race) decide that that the best way to progress is to start from within, you will see changes. When it`s easier to blame others you have no incentive to change. Where were you all when I posted that thread? ---
**Author:** ![moc.liamtoh\_rorrim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@moc.liamtoh\_rorrim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moc.liamtoh_rorrim)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/43 "2003-04-09T14:07:19Z")
STUPID FUCKING MURDERING RAPING STEALING NIGGERS! FUCK EM ALL OFF!! MUSLIMS TOO! FUCK YOU NIGGERS ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/44 "2003-04-09T14:09:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moc.liamtoh@rorrim \* > \*\*STUPID FUCKING MURDERING RAPING STEALING NIGGERS! > > FUCK EM ALL OFF!! > > MUSLIMS TOO! > FUCK YOU NIGGERS \*\* Um, Czarcasm? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/45 "2003-04-09T15:31:39Z")
moc.liamtoh@rorrim Banned Thankyou. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/46 "2003-04-09T16:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > [This](http://www.geocities.com/bigmike_75/aessays/a14.html) site claims blacks get the death penalty more than whites, and illustrates with this story: > : \*\* Interesting story. But does it mention their past records, if any? It would seem that the white guy likely had a clean criminal record. I dunno about the black guy, but "robbing a convience store: sounds more like a thing a repeat offender would do. If I was on a jury- I would hesitate to give the death sentence to just about any first time offender. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/47 "2003-04-09T19:26:28Z")
t-keela - should we flip a coin to find out who has to go dig up the stats? As other posts have indicated and t-keela and I know, the weight of the evidence shows that, even when class factors are removed, African-Americans are more likely to be indicted and convicted, and to receive harsher sentences. Whether it’s 12-percent or 4-percent, we have every reason to believe that an African-American who is accused of a crime will be suffer more than a white person facing a similar accusation. This is important, too: once you have been convicted, than mandatory sentencing laws and “three-strikes, you’re out” can ruin your life. Violation of parole - often a minor technical issue - also puts non-violent offenders away for years. YEARS. BTW, you can thank the last administration for continuing the brave work of making sure that law enforcement and the courts could try juveniles as adults and use mandatory sentencing, and three-strike rules. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/48 "2003-04-09T22:52:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*Interesting story. But does it mention their past records, if any? It would seem that the white guy likely had a clean criminal record. I dunno about the black guy, but "robbing a convience store: sounds more like a thing a repeat offender would do. > > If I was on a jury- I would hesitate to give the death sentence to just about any first time offender. \*\* No, it doesn’t mention past records, and I’ve frequently found that many publications with an agenda often leave out “the rest of the story.” Nevertheless, I do think that there is a certain amount of bias in our system toward black Americans. The “black thug” is the archetypal criminal: the boogeyman of white America. I think there is a tendency to punish them more harshly than whites, especially those who are from the middle class. I have read studies which indicate that whites often have more and “better” character witnesses during the sentancing phase. The studies claimed that whites appear to make better impressions on the juries and judges than blacks do, especially if the black witnesses appear to be of low socio-economic class. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/49 "2003-04-11T04:44:55Z")
**j.c.** here ya go… 🙂 > **[Home](https://bjs.ojp.gov/)** > > The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) is the United States' primary source for criminal justice statistics that cover a wide range of topics. “Racial disparity and the use of publicly financed counsel While 69% of white State prison inmates reported they had lawyers appointed by the court, 77% of blacks and 73% of Hispanics had publicly financed attorneys. In Federal prison black inmates were more likely than whites and Hispanics to have public counsel 65% for blacks, 57% for whites and 56% for Hispanics.” “Of those found guilty, however, those represented by publicly financed attorneys were incarcerated at a higher rate than those defendants who paid for their own legal representation 88 percent compared to 77% in Federal courts and 71% compared to 54% in the most populous counties.” These facts/stats are courtesy of the U.S. Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics. To paraphrase: More African-Americans require the use of a public defender. They are in turn incarcerated at a higher rate. While the causes for this disparity of justice is not explained, I realize there are complex issues involved in any thorough response. I still believe money is the “simple” answer. Public defenders are overworked and underpaid with little help and few resources. There is simply not enough $$$ in the fund to provide adequate counsel in many cases. As far as the length of sentencing is concerned. I will check that out as well. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/50 "2003-04-11T04:54:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrLiver \* > \*\*So, anyone has any stats as to how many people go to the criminal court and get away with it and then what % of those are black/white/asian…whatever… > > I mean, good lawyer or not, if you didn’t commit a crime there are good chances you’re not going to go to prison. > > My opinion is that if there is so many more black people in prison it would be because black people commit more crimes…now, why they commit their crimes is another debate altogether (I don’t think it has something to do with color). \*\* There are other factors. [For one thing, I]poor people\* commit more crimes than do the non-poor. Black citizens are more likely to be poor. For another, if you’re poor, you may well go to prision even if you didn’t commit any crime. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/51 "2003-04-11T04:56:18Z")
I understand that over 90% of the prison population in the U.S. is male. This is positively stunning and frightening. What is the cause of this? What is being done about it? If 90% of the prison population in the U.S. were female, you can be damn sure all the stops would be pulled out to solve the problem. What is the being done to address this issue? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/52 "2003-04-11T15:32:34Z")
Good question **Walloon**. The only answer I’ve ever seen is that to avoid prison overcrowding, they continue to build more prisons. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/53 "2003-04-13T05:48:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by catsix \* > \*\*The only answer I’ve ever seen is that to avoid prison overcrowding, they continue to build more prisons. \*\* Actually, right now, because of the economic pinch, prisons are being closed right and left in a lot of states. It’s not unusual for a prison to be at 125% capacity, and I’ve heard of some as high as 200%. During cut-backs, staff are laid-off, which creates a very dangerous environment of irritable inmates watched by an increasingly small number of staff. Of course, in tough economic times, crime tends to edge upwards, and thusm population in penal institutions. Politicians pound the podium and vow to be “tough on crime,” while quietly cutting the prison system’s budget behind the scenes. The money just isn’t there right now to build more prisons. They can barely afford to keep the ones they have open now in operation. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/54 "2003-04-13T05:52:04Z")
Podium: stage Lectern: speaker’s desk ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/55 "2003-04-13T05:54:49Z")
Wallon: > [@](#): > > I understand that over 90% of the prison population in the U.S. is male. This is positively stunning and frightening. What is the cause of this? What is being done about it? If 90% of the prison population in the U.S. were female, you can be damn sure all the stops would be pulled out to solve the problem. What is the being done to address this issue? So what’s your point; there’s no problem at all? ---
**Author:** ![Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@Hermann\_Cheruscan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermann_Cheruscan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/56 "2003-04-13T06:23:23Z")
> [@](#): > > So what’s your point; there’s no problem at all? I agree with you completely, pizzabrat. We need to ensure that at least 50% of our prison population is female. Any percentage less than that would be unfair. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/57 "2003-04-13T19:26:45Z")
ARGH!!! IDIOCY!! HORRIBLE ANALOGIES!! URGE TO KILL, RISING!!! Anyway, the problem stated wasn’t that a large percentage of the prison population is black, the problem is that a large percent of the black population is in prison. Therefore the “cute” little sex non-parallel example doesn’t work. So try again, **Walloon** , to come up with another smartass apoligist cutesy analogy thingy that’s more appropriate to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/58 "2003-04-13T19:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\*I understand that over 90% of the prison population in the U.S. is male. This is positively stunning and frightening. What is the cause of this? What is being done about it? If 90% of the prison population in the U.S. were female, you can be damn sure all the stops would be pulled out to solve the problem. What is the being done to address this issue? \*\* Well I’m sure you may find it highly amusing Walloon, but when I see a stat that **one out every eight members of a given population cohort that numbers in the tens of millions is in jail** umm… yeah I _do_ find it stunning and frightening, and I _do_ think all the stops should be pulled out to try and solve the problem. I had no inkling the rate of actual incarceration for black males in that cohort was so high. If one out of every white males between the age of 29 and 39 was in jail the sky would be falling. Just what specifically about the OP amuses you so that you feel compelled to mock it? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![arandomwinner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/46a35a/32.png) [@arandomwinner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arandomwinner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008/59 "2003-04-13T19:47:59Z")
anyone who doubts that it is racism needs to find a black person to befriend. once you can see it from their eyes, maybe it won’t be so hard to believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-percent-of-all-black-males-in-the-us-between-ages-20-39-are-in-jail/167008.md?page=2)