# 12 Planets and Counting: Meet the New Solar System **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020 "2006-08-16T22:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/121 "2006-08-24T21:43:41Z")
OK, this should be its own thread, but… 2003 UB313 should totally be officially named Xena. Not because the show was some great part of mythology, but because it was, in fact, a transitory part of pop culture. That means that, in time, the planet Xena will have the name all to itself in popular consciousness. I sort of think it would be better for planets to have their own names; there’s something twisted about using the name of some arbitrary ancient god for a giant ball of liquid methane. It’s probably futile to try to rename the major planets, though. Besides, we’ve already run through all the major Western deities in naming asteroids. Xena is available, it’s stuck for a couple of years, we may as well keep it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/122 "2006-08-24T23:04:16Z")
Some of the used names from some quick online searching. [Category:Asteroid stubs - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Asteroid_stubs) is a good category list: includes [1003 Lilofee](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1003_Lilofee), “named after a fictional character created by Josef Magnus Wehner.” Another page, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Main\_Belt\_asteroid\_stubs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Main_Belt_asteroid_stubs) , includes [26 Proserpina](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/26_Proserpina), [2698 Azerbajdzhan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2698_Azerbajdzhan), & [26734 Terryfarrell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/26734_Terryfarrell). 😃 Also, [the Apollo asteroids](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_asteroid) include a Hermes, a Nereus, & a Bacchus. The Trojan asteroids: [List of Jupiter trojans (Greek camp) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trojan_asteroids_%28Greek_camp%29) & [List of Jupiter trojans (Trojan camp) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trojan_asteroids_%28Trojan_camp%29) [Sedna](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna) is named for an Inuit sea goddess, but incidentally shares a name with two legendary kings of Ireland. Really, if you figure that UB313 has to be named after a god believed in seriously by somebody, you can change the last vowel to _u_ & confuse those who believe in both Hubbard & Velikovsky. Me, I’m calling it Xena. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/123 "2006-08-24T23:09:03Z")
[QUOTE=JustAnotherGeek] My proposal: [ul][li]Planets: objects bright enough to return light to earth at night and move against the background of the stars, but are present every year. (The above named FIVE, count 'em FIVE.)[/li][li]Asteroids: rocky objects small enough such their own gravity does not pull them into a spheircal shape.[/li][li]Terrestrials: Rocky objects large enough such that their own gravity has pulled them into a spherical shape. (Note, this includes Ceres, and many of the moons)[/li][li]Jovians: Bodies made up of gasses, pulled into spherical from their own gravity, but not massive enough to turn into stars (i.e. not completely engulfed in fusion)[/li][li]Plutons: Objects made of ices, pulled into spherical shapes from their own gravity, originating from the Kuiper Belt.[/li][li]Comets: Icy bodies orginating from the Oort cloud.[/li][/ul] No ambiguity. No discussion. No need for the solar system to contain dozens of “planets.” No more need to clarify \*what kind of \*planet. And people might now understand a little better the relevance of “Planets” to our ancestors. [/QUOTE] Not bad, but technically, Uranus is a planet by the above definition. It’s just really dim. In fact, by using a telescope, we can expand that definition much much further, but I’m going to pretend you said, “visible to the human eye in the absence of cloud cover,” in there. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/124 "2006-08-24T23:33:49Z")
Sigh. That was already covered, wasn’t it? Oh, wait, JAGeek, here’s a way we can declare Earth not a planet! > [@](#): > > [http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9797-pluto-may-yet-lose-planet-status.html](http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9797-pluto-may-yet-lose-planet-status.html) > On Friday, another definition, put forward by a group led by Julio Fernandez of the University of the Republic in Montevideo, Uruguay, received some support. It includes the clause that a planet also has to be “by far the largest body in its local population”. “By far,” huh? Luna is too close in size to Earth to be a “satellite” in the sense of Titan & Ganymede. Therefore, Earth & Luna are a … binary terrestrial system! 😃 Ta-da! > [@](#): > > English astronomer William Herschel discovered the planet in 1781 during a telescopic survey of the zodiac. He promptly named it the Georgium Sidus (the Georgian Planet) in honor of his patron, King George III. Later, to the everlasting delight of schoolchildren, George was re-named Uranus, the Greek god of the sky. Some of us prefer to call it [Herschel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus#Discovery_and_naming), after the too-modest discoverer. [QUOTE=MEBuckner] Yeah, I agree the new “8 planet” definition isn’t really any less problematic than the “12+ planet” definition was. I wish next week some enterprising astronomer would discover a true “double planet” orbiting some nearby star–two big, unambiguous planets, orbiting each other, in orbit around their star–just to mess with the IAU’s heads. [/QUOTE] I think the response to that might be, “We remain agnostic about the existence of a universe beyond the Oort Cloud.” OK, that’s more than enough of my postscripting. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/125 "2006-08-25T19:53:55Z")
Many others seem to feel we’ve gotten a [crap](http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9846-new-planet-definition-sparks-furore.html) definition of “planet”, though one at least has taken issue with the notion of “clearing” the orbit somewhat differently, pointing out the existence of Trojans and the like. Anyway, I’m glad to hear this is getting protested, and hopefully the objections will be loud and persistent enough to change things. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/126 "2006-08-25T21:59:26Z")
From that link: > [@](#): > > But not everyone is unhappy with the decision. Richard Conn Henry of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, US, says he is pleased with the outcome. “As far as I’m concerned, the right decision was made,” he told New Scientist. “I know a planet when I see it and there are eight of them.” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Having slept on it, the “new definition” is crap. Since Earth’s diameter is not a full order of magnitude greater than Luna’s, does that mean we’re a “binary dwarf planet,” even though Earth is the largest terrestrial body in the system? Screw 'em. I hadn’t thought much about it in a long time, but now I’m going to consider Ceres & Vesta planets, because _that’s what they are._ If astronomers want a term for orbit-dominating planet, they can coin one. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/127 "2006-08-25T22:43:11Z")
I really don’t care if Pluto winds up being a planet or not, but I think the definition needs to be at least rigorous, painfully clear, and have some kind of universal applicability, such that it’s not simply a matter of convenience for astronomers who want to ignore the rest of the galaxy beyond our solar system. This definition they agreed upon strikes me as useful and well-conceived only to people who don’t like there to be more planets than can be counted on two hands. _That’s not a terribly physically relevant criterion_. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/128 "2006-08-25T23:50:05Z")
Just posting to be counted amongst the anti-Plutonians who rejoiced when the final decision was made 🙂😉😃😛 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020/129 "2006-08-25T23:52:40Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] Having slept on it, the “new definition” is crap. Since Earth’s diameter is not a full order of magnitude greater than Luna’s, does that mean we’re a “binary dwarf planet,” even though Earth is the largest terrestrial body in the system? . [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t mind. Actually, I already somehow envisioned things this way, given the size of our satellite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-planets-and-counting-meet-the-new-solar-system/369020.md?page=6)