# 12 year old killed by gator, humans respond **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138 "2003-06-20T12:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/121 "2003-06-20T21:38:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*Was this directed to me? Since your post is under my post, > \*\* I was responding to **Ivylass**. I made a mistake in assuming my post would end up directly under hers. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/122 "2003-06-20T21:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jackelope \* > \*\*Holy cow, **Beagle** ; [this photo](http://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/imagefiles/d052w01.htm), from one of your links, is amazing. Reminds me of the gator-infested canals on my friend’s grandfather’s ranch outside of Tampa (in which we did not go swimming). \*\* I used to hike out there occasionally while I was in college. You should see [Lake Alice](http://virtualtour.ufl.edu/campus_sites/alice.htm) at night. I watched a total lunar eclipse there one night. Creepy. Very creepy. Children were playing down by the water. The gators cruised in, eyes glowing, lurking, as if to say, “don’t slip.” That, combined with the blood red moon, was really neat. OTOH, parents can be so stupid. I should have said something. I figured it wasn’t for me, **Lemur866**. Thanks for clarifying though. On **habitat loss**. It’s not so simple. When we build subdivisions in Florida ordinarily we create lakes as much for the fill dirt as anything else. Golf courses dig lake after lake for the same reason. Guess what, you just created another alligator habitat. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/123 "2003-06-20T21:55:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > \*\*Well, the first thing they could have done was give the gator a medal for being so brave and honest for telling the truth about eating the kid, which we didn’t expect, or they could have bawled the alligator out and told him never to be seen eating children again, which we kind of expected, but the THIRD THING was that that they rounded him up and killed him. \*\* Only instead of Officer Obie taking his belt away, he’s making him into a belt. great reference there ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/124 "2003-06-20T22:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > **Of course, there’s a major difference or two between the situations - in this case they had no way of ascertaining which gator attacked, just that it was one ‘about yea big’. Damn things won’t wear tags ya know. and w/the Rotts, generally speaking, yes they do know…** People who let vicious dogs run loose often don’t register them and get tags. If a dog attacks a person and runs off, there isn’t a big roundup and execution of all dogs of a similar breed in the area.\*\* > [@](#): > > RE; the definative ‘taste of blood’ thing - From posts in this thread, seems that FL allows for the killing of gators over a certain size, regardless of history of killing, so I don’t think that’s relevant. \*\* You’re entitled to your opinion. Of course, it would have been nice if you hadn’t missed out on the part where I acknowledged Fla. law on killing an agressive animal, but noted that the law didn’t suggest going out and killing _a whole mess of animals_ in hopes of getting the bad one. The parents have suffered a terrible loss. I don’t think the situation is helped by killing off a bunch of animals for the sake of “security”/revenge/yahoos wanting to kill things. Sometimes when I see a picture of some moron posing proudly next to his alligator kill, I think that the moron’s head on a plaque might make a nice addition to someone’s trophy room. Footnote: When I lived on a bayou in south Texas (no alligators, but reptiles galore), I once killed a small rattlesnake that had slithered up next to the sidewalk 30 feet from our back door. I didn’t feel real good about it, but it was justifiable in my mind. What I did _not_ do was organize a hunting party to go out and slaughter every snake in the neighborhood. There’s reacting to immediate peril - and then there’s stupidity. By the way, **wring** , it’s interesting to see you endorsing the death penalty (at least for reptiles, if not for reptiles in human form). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/125 "2003-06-20T22:09:04Z")
It seems from Beagle’s links that any alligator that is determined to be a problem is automatically slaughtered if it is over 4 feet, relocated if under 4 feet. So if there’s an alligator under your car and you call the authorities (since it would be illegal for you to try to shoo it away yourself) if it is over 4 feet it will be killed and slaughtered. This seems like just a routine part of living in Florida. Nuisance alligators are slaughtered all the time. No big whoop. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/126 "2003-06-21T01:21:34Z")
> [@](#): > > This seems like just a routine part of living in Florida. Nuisance alligators are slaughtered all the time. No big whoop. Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/127 "2003-06-21T01:45:12Z")
Oh, yeah. See you later, alligator. As the preceding posters have stated (in a much more eloquent manner that I can) our planet is a complex mix of animals, humans and flora. The concept that it’s acceptable to kill 10 alligators (They’re not endangered! Kill them!) in response to this tragedy is ridiculous, in my opinion. If I’m not mistaken, alligators/crocs have roamed this land a tad longer than humans. I will also add that I was 80%/20% on whether it was wrong to kill the alligators – until I read some of the posters on this thread. After 'while, crocodile. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/128 "2003-06-21T02:11:04Z")
**blonde** > [@](#): > > pssst. No need for rebuttals - you’re doing a great job burying yourself without our help. Bullshit! :rolleyes: :: pulls up lawn chair:: when come back bring pie BWAAHAHAHAHAH!!!11 hoo boy this should be _goooood._ :wally There. That’s all the childish ‘non-rebuttals’ that instantly spring to mind. Just thought I’d save you the trouble of trawling through them. Here’s a thought, how about you try being just a _little_ original and actually refute what I’m saying as opposed to merely calling ‘Bullshit’ like an _idiot_ and scampering away whilst simultaneously providing justification for every blonde joke ever told. **Dinsdale** > [@](#): > > Uh, Ben? Describing humanns as existing at the top of the evolutionary ladder suggests a rather profound ignorance of evolution. Uh, **Dinsdale,** ‘evolutionary ladder’ is a figure of speech. **Pedro** > [@](#): > > There are laws that say otherwise. Okay, okay. I knew someone was gonna pull me up on that. I’ll rephrase. We, as the _ **Master Race** _ (mwahahaha) have it within our power to kill pretty much every other living organism on earth. Now, while we may be prohibited when it comes to Condors or Bald Eagles, when it comes to packs of alligators, one of which has eaten one of our children, their continued existance is something which we can pretty much decide on a whim. In these situations it is our right, nay our _duty_, to eliminate the threat in whatever manner we see fit. Alligators are not an endangered species. If you can quote me a legal statute illegitimising the actions of the community in this instance then I promise I’ll bow out disgracefully a.s.a.p. > [@](#): > > That’s not Darwinism. But who can argue with “Fuck 'em”? Not you, evidently. **jlzania** > [@](#): > > It’s this sort of philosophy that promotes the indiscriminate decimation of the earth’s resources. And I’m sure the world will collectively pause and wipe away a solitary tear the day we’ve run out of alligator skins for our shoes and handbags. > [@](#): > > And I’m afraid that you really really need to brush up on the theory of evolution, babe. Oh fer _crying out loud,_ have you _never_ heard the term ‘evolutionary ladder’ used as a figure of speech? Damn, it’s used as an insult frequently in this very forum, for example \*\*'Callous, stonehearted monsters who would mock a dead child while bemoaning the fate of the vicious unthinking reptile that dragged him to his death are on the bottom rung of the _evolutionary ladder’._ \*\* Maybe my use of the term wasn’t in strict accordance with the latest peer reviewed literature but it was _just a figure of speech!_ **Tony Montana** > [@](#): > > Master race?? Human race, dude. **gobear** > [@](#): > > Does this mean that Ben Hick plans to round up all the gators for resettlement in the East? And how does he plan on sewing those little cloth patches onto the gators? Huh? Are you just throwing words together like Hugo Ball or is there something coherent lurking under there? FWIW I’m not an American so if this one of your historical references consider me whooshed. **Diogenes** > [@](#): > > Dude, there’s no such thing as an evolutionary "ladder. Evolution is not a linear hierachy. we are the latest species in our evolutionary line but so is every other extant species. We are at the top of our food chain, but so are alligators. In fact, if an alligator eats a stupid kid, that’s natural selection at its finest. I promise, it was just a figure of speech. And if it’s natural selection for the alligator to eat the “stupid kid” then what is it when we kill a dozen or so gators to minimise the risk of another one of our young getting eaten? Pre-emptive natural selection? Ensuring the survival of the fittest by being proactive? Way I see it, for every croc we take out of that water the odds of the “stupid kids” living in that area seeing their thirteenth birthday increases ever so slightly as one more potential danger is removed. Sure they could’ve done the same by educating the kids better or building a bigassed fence around the pond but I don’t much care _how_ they went about eradicating this risk since I don’t care about alligators (hell, I bought my dad an alligator skin briefcase for his 50th birthday and I’m sure at least _someone_ here has some alligator shoes), bottom line is they’ve done it. By doing this we’re helping the propagation and continuation of our own genes. That’s Darwinism as far as I’m acquainted with the theory (which isn’t much, I’ll admit). Hell, even if I’ve got this whole thing utterly bassackwards it doesn’t bother me much since all this rationalisation about food chains and evolutionary ladders runs as a rather non essential corollary to my main point that people who would speak ill of _a fucking dead child_ are the lowest of the low. **Ino** > [@](#): > > Holy shit, Wildest Bill became literate and returned as Ben Hicks. Ah HA! Gotcha ya! I’ve durn been eatsin grits and readin’ the diccionarrey and I gots me sum book lernin’. Betcha ya’ll dijna see that one comin’. Anyway, I’m **Serlin’s** sockpuppet, so there 😛 Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/129 "2003-06-21T02:27:15Z")
Good evening, **Ben Hicks**. I’m pulling up a lawnchair myself – this will be quite amusing. Is there a word for the “person who is so out-there that he kills his OWN camp in the debate?” Hang it up. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/130 "2003-06-21T02:32:58Z")
Aaah! You did it _again_. Am I _so_ inscrutible that tackling any of my statements head on is just out of the question? Then again, I find it hard to believe you could beat a trained chicken at tic tac toe so I can’t say your spectacularly inane posturings in this thread are any kind of shock to me. And for your information I don’t have a fucking ‘camp’. I have my own opinion which I’ve formulated independently. I don’t see how anyone else’s point of view can sink or float based on how I present _mine_. Unless…unless of course they’re the _same_ viewpoint, in which case you’re just pissing on the style instead of attacking the substance. Dimwit. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/131 "2003-06-21T02:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \* > \*\*Aaah! You did it _again_. Am I _so_ inscrutible that tackling any of my statements head on is just out of the question? Then again, I find it hard to believe you could beat a trained chicken at tic tac toe so I can’t say your spectacularly inane posturings in this thread are any kind of shock to me. > > And for your information I don’t have a fucking ‘camp’. I have my own opinion which I’ve formulated independently. I don’t see how anyone else’s point of view can sink or float based on how I present _mine_. Unless…unless of course they’re the _same_ viewpoint, in which case you’re just pissing on the style instead of attacking the substance. > > Dimwit. \*\* Well, I’m certainly not going to get upset about a total stranger (who appears to have the mentality of a 4 year old caveman) calling me a dimwit. Yawn. Kiss my sweet ass. And, isn’t it time for beddy-bye? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/132 "2003-06-21T03:23:54Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > * * * > > > > Does this mean that Ben Hick plans to round up all the gators for resettlement in the East? And how does he plan on sewing those little cloth patches onto the gators? > > > > * * * > > Huh? Are you just throwing words together like Hugo Ball or is there something coherent lurking under there? FWIW I’m not an American so if this one of your historical references consider me whooshed. Well, I wasplaying on your “humans are the master race” to bring an alligator Holocaust riff. I didn;t know only Americans knew about 20th century history. You are so dumb even President Bush could beat you at Scrabble. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/133 "2003-06-21T03:34:27Z")
Well excuse me for not catching the reference but if you think an ability to keep pace with your vague historical allusions truly and unequivocally demonstrates a comprehensive knowledge of 20th century history (rather than, say, the ownership of the Band of Brothers Box set DVD) you’re sorely mistaken. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/134 "2003-06-21T03:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*You are so dumb even President Bush could beat you at Scrabble. \*\* And Al Gore, as well. Ouch!! ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/135 "2003-06-21T03:38:12Z")
Well, Al Gore invented Scrabble. I can’t compete with that. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/136 "2003-06-21T03:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ben Hicks \* > \*\*Well, Al Gore invented Scrabble. I can’t compete with that. \*\* That’s the first thing you’ve said on this post that I find amusing! Keep that up. Slow down on the anger, this issue isn’t all that important to you, is it? You seem intelligent and I’d like to see you stick around, so choose your battles wisely, cowboy. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/137 "2003-06-21T03:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ratty \* > \*\*You know what? I’m not sorry this kid’s dead. \*\* **Ratty?** Sorry, but I don’t believe you. I realize I’m not quoting your entire post here, and you **do** make some valid points about stupidity getting you killed, but the fact remains that this was a child, and I believe if you look deep down inside yourself, you’ll find that you **do** regret his death. Several years ago an 11 year old boy came into our ER. Strangled himself with a dog chain to achieve an orgasm. Incredibly stupid yes, but he was a little boy, and so I cried when we couldn’t save him because his life ended so early. Quasi ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/138 "2003-06-21T04:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Quasimodem \* > \*\ ***Ratty?** > > Sorry, but I don’t believe you. I realize I’m not quoting your entire post here, and you **do** make some valid points about stupidity getting you killed, but the fact remains that this was a child, and I believe if you look deep down inside yourself, you’ll find that you **do** regret his death. > > Several years ago an 11 year old boy came into our ER. Strangled himself with a dog chain to achieve an orgasm. Incredibly stupid yes, but he was a little boy, and so I cried when we couldn’t save him because his life ended so early. > > Quasi \*\* That’s a horrible story; my husband is a firefighter/paramedic in Dallas, TX (is there really a Dallas in Georgia?) The only stories he has shared with me involve children - and they are heartbreaking. As it relates to this thread (anticipating backlash) - if I lived in Florida, I wouldn’t let my 12-year old swim in gator-infested waters. With that said, my parents didn’t know where I was at that age either. I want my children to grow up seeing/respecting all the creatures that inhabit our planet. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/139 "2003-06-21T04:06:04Z")
It’s just a fucking alligator or seven, nothing to see here, move along. ---
**Author:** ![Ryle\_Dup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Ryle\_Dup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryle_Dup)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138/140 "2003-06-21T04:07:03Z")
I can’t believe this is still a goddamn arguement. I’ve got no idea what Ben Hicks is talking about, but then again, it doesn’t matter. According to the article, the alligators were killed DUE TO THE SIZE OF THEM. The only reason they were killed was because of the size. The death of the kid sucks, but it was how they found out bout these large gators. Get over yourselves, 100,000 crocs are killed per year legally in FL and you bitch about 10 that were killed LEGALLY. There was no ‘revenge plot’ it was about the size of the alligators. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-year-old-killed-by-gator-humans-respond/183138.md?page=8)