# 12 Years and who knows how many sickened, Lancet fully recants... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411 "2010-02-02T17:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/41 "2010-02-03T13:28:16Z")
What’s amazing is that reporters are commiting the same mistake as previously. This morning on Canada AM, Beverly Thompson (one of the co-host) told a scientist that the retraction **does not** eliminate vaccines as the cause of autism :eek: Some things never change. The stupid… It hurts ☹ ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/42 "2010-02-03T13:39:12Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Chelation is where they try to purge heavy metals. In this case, it worked - it stole so much Calcium out of his system that he went into convulsions and died right in the doctor’s office. Calcium is a heavy metal now? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/43 "2010-02-03T14:18:24Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Look, it’s not like we should push the anti-vaxers on the issue, after all, I’m sure they all have plenty of reasons why it wouldn’t be so bad if Little Timmy got polio. A sadly appropriate article in the NY Times about that [illness](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/health/03polio.html?ref=us) and the after effects even decades later. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/44 "2010-02-03T14:41:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I hate to spoil a great simile but… what’s a frat girl? Drunken college girl (defintely not a woman). Not sober enough to say no, not bright enough to avoid booze, and not personable enough to join a sorority. It’s not a very flattering phrase. > [@psychonaut](#): > > Calcium is a heavy metal now? I should have made this clearer, because I didn’t understand this the first time I read it, either. I _think_ Chelation leaches calcium as it strips any heavy metals from the bones, but I’m no expert . > **[Chelation therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy)** > > Chelation therapy is a medical procedure that involves the administration of chelating agents to remove heavy metals from the body. Chelation therapy has a long history of use in clinical toxicology and remains in use for some very specific medical treatments, although it is administered under very careful medical supervision due to various inherent risks, including the mobilization of mercury and other metals through the brain and other parts of the body by the use of weak chelating agents Chela... The revelant section is all the way at the bottom, along with a listing of several other deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/45 "2010-02-03T15:34:03Z")
While it’s discouraging to hear that some media outlets are not getting the full implication of the Lancet’s retraction, overall there are indications that the news media are beginning to recognize the foolishness and dangerous consequences of antivax hysteria, and are reflecting this in their reporting. The N.Y. Times has been a bulwark of good sense and solid science reporting. Recently the Chicago Tribune has been taking on [autism’s “false prophets”](http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-autism-lupron-geiers-may21,0,983359.story) and doing articles on the damage done to autistic children from pseudo-medical treatments to fix their "vaccine damage. Andrew Wakefield is now based in Austin, Texas working at a facility doing autism “research”, pulling down a hefty salary, continuing to spread antivax propaganda and defending his actions in the MMR scare. More good commentary on Wakefield and his bizarre worship by some autism activists [here](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence). ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/46 "2010-02-03T15:52:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The N.Y. Times has been a bulwark of good sense and solid science reporting. Recently the Chicago Tribune has been taking on [autism’s “false prophets”](http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-autism-lupron-geiers-may21,0,983359.story) and doing articles on the damage done to autistic children from pseudo-medical treatments to fix their "vaccine damage. Agreed, some have managed to hold back on the hysteria. I have a subscription to the Tribune and have been very impressed by their articles - front page, big headlines, not buried in the back - on the untested “treatments” for autism that are being peddled to desperate parents. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/47 "2010-02-03T15:56:41Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > You did that deliberately, didn’t you? 😉 Huh? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/48 "2010-02-03T16:07:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s amazing that this study wasn’t withdrawn years ago. I thought it had been. According to [This American Life episode 370 “Ruining It For the Rest of Us”.](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1275) (starts 20:37 on the podcast). > [@](#): > > That paper has since been discredited, the journal actually retracted it. Study after study confirmed that the shot (MMR) does not cause autism. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/49 "2010-02-03T16:36:42Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > \In fact, argues Goldacre, the UK media is primarily responsible for the hysteria and its consequences. I’ll buy that. Junk science needs a platform to disseminate, and news shows needing to fill air time want all of it they can get. I’m not quite sure how much to blame the reporters are, yet - it’s a tough job, keeping up with medical news, and you don’t grab viewers with, “Coming up at 11 - a story with adequate footnotes and research outlining how there may possibly be some new findings that we’ll have to follow for a couple of years and see if it pans out.” Instead you get, “YOUR PLASTIC WATER BOTTLES WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN!!!” (They won’t.) I do fully blame them for giving equal weight and credence to crackpots and crackpot ideas as they do to established ideas and blocks of scientists, though. That is egalitarian bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/50 "2010-02-03T16:45:54Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > \ > And I actually read a comment from a mother a couple days ago, saying that you should let your children catch chicken pox the natural way, as it will “toughen them up”. Sometimes I despair. Like (I’m sure) a lot of people here, I got chicken pox the natural way when I was a kid in the seventies, and I have possible shingles looming in my future thanks to that. I wish people would use the internet for something other than posting pictures of their kids - this information is all out there. Instead, they hear something on the news and don’t bother doing any research to vet it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/51 "2010-02-03T16:54:25Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I’m extremely disappointed that CNN’s so-called medical expert stated that the anti-vax people claim that there have been studies since Wakefield’s that indicated a link without then saying “that claim is not true.” This was a very badly done story - the study is invalid because it wasn’t random enough? You and I know why this is a bad thing, but they didn’t explain that to Joe and Jane Public _at all_. Not randomizing your study means **he started out with a conclusion and looked until he found data to support it.** No wonder people are so taken in by junk science, if this is the level of reporting going on at even the CNN level, when they are making a half-hearted attempt to say junk science is bad. I came away from watching that clip thinking that your average US American mother didn’t get the right message at all. (Sorry for the multiple posting - I’m not reading this thread in the right order at all. All the junk science must be scrambling my brains this morning.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/52 "2010-02-03T17:32:37Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > No wonder people are so taken in by junk science, if this is the level of reporting going on at even the CNN level Because at most colleges, Journalism, Communications, etc. are the Majors For People Who Want To Stay As Far Away From Math And Science As Possible. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/53 "2010-02-03T17:33:54Z")
True enough. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/54 "2010-02-03T20:37:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Like (I’m sure) a lot of people here, I got chicken pox the natural way when I was a kid in the seventies, and I have possible shingles looming in my future thanks to that. I wish people would use the internet for something other than posting pictures of their kids - this information is all out there. Instead, they hear something on the news and don’t bother doing any research to vet it. Well, most of them would probably tell you that the vaccine will leave you vulnerable to shingles even more, on top of the danger of the shot itself. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/55 "2010-02-03T22:32:06Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > Well, most of them would probably tell you that the vaccine will leave you vulnerable to shingles even more, on top of the danger of the shot itself. And they’d be wrong. While shingles has been reported following vaccination, incidence appears less than in those who’ve had chickenpox infection. The “danger of the shot” is not a realistic fear, as it has a good safety record akin to other vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/56 "2010-02-04T18:27:44Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > Well, most of them would probably tell you that the vaccine will leave you vulnerable to shingles even more, on top of the danger of the shot itself. In addition to what **Jackmannii** said, chicken pox in adult can be VERY nasty, potentially leading to a life-threatening pneumonia and encephalitis (inflammation and swelling of the brain). And, should a pregnant woman get chicken-pox, the fetus can get all types of horrible complications. [The Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_pox) has a list if anyone’s interested. ‘Double think’ never fails to amaze me. Orwell was a genius. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/57 "2010-02-10T17:23:25Z")
Also, see if you can follow this logic: Dr. Wakefield is a scientist (to a lot of people), he was wrong, therefore scientists are wrong, _therefore_ therefore science is a load of crap. Don’t try to fight it. This logic is one of the things that made Kansas the butt of jokes it is today. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/58 "2010-02-15T20:31:03Z")
Isn’t a retraction a much more serious issue than simply saying the original article was wrong? I mean, if a sound scientific study suggested that there might be a link between the vax and autism but was then proven not to be true, the original article would probably stand but be considered superseded. But by retracting the article, the Lancet is saying that it should never have been published at all. Is this correct? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/59 "2010-02-16T10:29:43Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Well, now that we’ve gotten the junk science of vaccines cleared up, let’s get rid of the junk science on DDT, which has probably killed more people in the last half-century than all other junk science combined (and possibly more than any other cause of death, period). I guess that makes Rachel Carson a vicious psychopath and a fame-seeking whore. And given that about 75% of Americans swallowed the politics hook line and sinker, I guess that makes 3 of the people in this thread assholes too. > > Oh, and _please_ post your ill-informed memes about baby birds and shit too. I don’t even understand what just happened here. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411/60 "2010-02-16T13:58:26Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I don’t even understand what just happened here. ☹ Hmm, maybe he’s saying that if DDT was still in use that mosquitoes would be extinct and malaria wouldn’t be an issue? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-and-who-knows-how-many-sickened-lancet-fully-recants/527411.md?page=4)