# 12 years old, both arms blown off, family dead, but hey - he's FREE! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2003, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517 "2003-04-09T09:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/1 "2003-04-09T09:57:00Z")
Amazed this wasn’t in the Pit yesterday. Read it and weep : [http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=21440](http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=21440) Be sure to take a good look at that photograph, and think for a moment about what sort of life that child has now. I did have a rant all ready to accompany this, but in the end I decided it didn’t do the topic justice. ---
**Author:** ![Ooner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c67d28/32.png) [@Ooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ooner)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/2 "2003-04-09T10:02:50Z")
Casualties are sad, but it happens. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/3 "2003-04-09T10:15:21Z")
It is sad. Poor kid. I may be mistaken but I think I saw this same kid on the news tonight. They are trying to get him stateside to give him free prosthetic limbs. Not that they are a good replacement for him, but I thought you should know. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/4 "2003-04-09T10:16:47Z")
Ooner, this goes a long way beyond sad. From the cite I would direct those who would like to do more than shrug to an appeal set up for the boy. > [@](#): > > The Ali Appeal, > c/o Daily Mirror, > PO Box 6867, > London, > E14 5AN. > > You can also make a donation using Visa, Mastercard or Switch cards by calling 0870 902 3185. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/5 "2003-04-09T10:19:30Z")
[Baghdad hospitals pushed to the limit](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,932681,00.html) looks like a lot of people need liberating from pain and suffering as well as from their horrible regime. **Ooner** do you “_shrug_” at every injury and death from this war? Prick. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/6 "2003-04-09T10:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ooner \* > Casualties are sad, but it happens. > > _shrug_ Compassion knows no bounds, truly. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/7 "2003-04-09T10:21:50Z")
[http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181\_230126,001300180007.htm](http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_230126,001300180007.htm) [http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/09/nlimb09.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/09/ixnewstop.html](http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/09/nlimb09.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/09/ixnewstop.html) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/8 "2003-04-09T10:27:54Z")
If S.H. would have gone straight to the UN this never would have happened. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/9 "2003-04-09T10:51:01Z")
Thanks, **Gary** , for quoting that address. But what about all the other victims of this war whose pictures we haven’t seen? Let’s hope it’s over soon. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/10 "2003-04-09T11:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reuben \* > Be sure to take a good look at that photograph, and think for a moment about what sort of life that child has now. I did have a rant all ready to accompany this, but in the end I decided it didn’t do the topic justice. What’s your point ? And shame about the rant because it might explain what this is about, ‘war is bad’ maybe ? That would be insightful. _Roll up, Roll up !!_: assuage your war guilt in a sub feed-the-world-from-your-sofa-and-feel-good! kinda way. Donate through your fearless, self-serving tabloid ! Maybe we should just leave the poor kid alone rather than gawp all day and contribute to the exploitation - if you didn’t already know this kind of thing happens in war, you will next time. ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/11 "2003-04-09T12:45:12Z")
What’s my point? I guess I don’t have one. All the arguments against war have been done to death, the hawks consistently showing themselves incapable of, and impervious to, rational argument. Maybe the picture of a shattered young life might change a few minds, but I’m not holding my breath. Anyone stupid enough to think that this war was necessary, just, democratic, or serving UK/US national interest in any way whatsoever, is certainly too stupid to be capable of any real empathy with its victims. And as for war guilt, I don’t have any. I never wanted this mess to happen and spoke out against it as loud as democracy (ho-ho) and the law allowed me. And I didn’t need some hypocritical tabloid editor to tell me my opinion either; just a modicum of common sense coupled with the barest sprinkling of humanity was enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/12 "2003-04-09T12:48:34Z")
Be careful, there, **Reuben**. If that brush gets much bigger you may end up drowning from the paint that spills off. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/13 "2003-04-09T13:02:57Z")
Unbelievable as it may be to you and I, **London\_Calling** , some people really don’t seem to know what war entails. E.g. when reports of the first POWs came out, I constantly heard statements such as “When these brave young soldiers were sent out to Iraq, who would ever have imagined that they could be taken prisoner?” Maybe it’s good to remind people of what can and does happen in war so that they _will_ know next time. I guess the idea of assuaging our war guilt with the help of the fearless tabloid is pretty ridiculous, but there’s not much else we non-Americans can do. I could take part in yet another protest in a country whose government and entire populace is already against this war, but what would that achieve? Only Americans can really make a difference now, and if **Reuben** ’s simplistic reminder to us that “war is bad” can change just one American’s opinion about the war, then I consider it worthwhile. And personally I can vouch for the fact that rare though it may be, it is possible to occasionally be influenced by what one reads on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/14 "2003-04-09T13:05:44Z")
Thank you **Reuban**! We’re all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. Your post is an orgy of stultifying cacophonous verbal depravity; an exercise in literary impotence, and an offense to all of good taste and decency. Many people want this war to end. And there are going to be casualties. IT’S A FRIGG’IN WAR FOR CHRISSAKE!! Innocent people Die. Some volunteer to erase moral depravity from the face of the earth while others latently sit by and wag their tail at every person who decides to support our troops. The story of the young boy is tragic, but the story of the 5 million other people who will not have to live in fear for their life anymore out weighs the atrocities the are inflicted at times of war. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/15 "2003-04-09T13:14:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reuben \* > What’s my point? > > I guess I don’t have one. All the arguments against war have been done to death, the hawks consistently showing themselves incapable of, and impervious to, rational argument. Maybe the picture of a shattered young life might change a few minds, but I’m not holding my breath. Anyone stupid enough to think that this war was necessary, just, democratic, or serving UK/US national interest in any way whatsoever, is certainly too stupid to be capable of any real empathy with its victims. So you’re exploiting the kid to further your own emotional-political opinions ? Actually, I don’t think you are but it shows what a complicated world it is. Sometimes there’s mor to it than the shallow, superfical imagery and cartoon characterisations so popular with the woolly Left. Leave the kid alone, eh ? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reuben \* > And as for war guilt, I don’t have any. I never wanted this mess to happen and spoke out against it as loud as democracy (ho-ho) and the law allowed me. And I didn’t need some hypocritical tabloid editor to tell me my opinion either; just a modicum of common sense coupled with the barest sprinkling of humanity was enough for me. I bet the photographer got paid well, especially given that great 'look, no limbs! angle - right up the Mirror’s alley ! **Pennylane** – If you don’t know what just under 1,000 flying sorties _a day_ dropping a total of 18, 000 pieces of ordanance, _plus_ 800 Cruise missiles is likely to do, I can’t help you and I doubt anyone can. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/16 "2003-04-09T13:16:42Z")
pennylane - not _you_, rather ‘they’ / ‘them’. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/17 "2003-04-09T13:23:25Z")
So Reuben, does it concern you that Saddam lines residential neighborhoods with military installations and equipment? And what do you make of pictures like the one on the front page of [Salon.com](http://www.salon.com/) today (Wednesday)? If we’re going to change each others’ minds with pictures, I thought I might as well give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/18 "2003-04-09T13:24:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reuben \* > \*\* I guess I don’t have one. All the arguments against war have been done to death, the hawks consistently showing themselves incapable of, and impervious to, rational argument. \*\* OK, that cheeses me off. I’m against the war myself. But I cannot stand the assumption that anyone who doesn’t agree with me is obviously a dunderhead. Rational does not mean “agrees with my position”. OK, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/19 "2003-04-09T13:29:13Z")
It’s a _war_ you say **Phlosphr**? Well that’s alright then! Of course people are going to die! Silly me, getting upset over nothing. > [@](#): > > So you’re exploiting the kid to further your own emotional-political opinions ? Um, I know you retract that in the next sentence, but I really can’t say **NO** loud enough. Where in the world do you read exploitation into it?? I’m not the Daily bloody Mirror! Just some random guy who got a bit upset over this, and thought the story deserving of the wider audience of the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![frank\_zafka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@frank\_zafka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frank_zafka)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/20 "2003-04-09T13:31:36Z")
My first post–and it had to be here of all places… Reuben, Please explain futher the “empathy” you feel with this particular victim. The reason I ask is that I feel that the anti-war crowd in particular only feels “empathy” when it suits their purpose or platform, rather than the “sympathy” owed most likely to his uncle, brothers, grandmothers, etc., etc. when Mr. Hussein was busy doing this on a regular basis for the last decade…give or take a decade. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517.md?page=2)