# 12 years old, both arms blown off, family dead, but hey - he's FREE! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2003, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517 "2003-04-09T09:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/121 "2003-04-09T20:12:10Z")
**Gutless Shrub** : [Washington Post 6/28/99](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm) [Boston Globe 9/22/99](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/Bush_reportedly_was_helped_in_joining_the_Guard_unit_in_Vietnam_era+.shtml) **AWOL Shrub** : [Boston Globe 5/23/00](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/One_year_gap_in_Bush_s_Guard_duty+.shtml) [CNN 5/24/00](http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/05/24/bushguard.cnn/index.html) [Washington Post 6/26/00](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59151-2000Jun25¬Found=true) [Tompaine](http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671) [index of GWB’s military records](http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm) **US support for UN sanctions** [Globalpolicy.org](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/indexone.htm) > [@](#): > > _The US and UK governments made it clear early on that they would block any lifting of sanctions as long as Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein remains in power. Though the international community increasingly criticized the sanctions because of their harsh impact on innocent Iraqi civilians and their lack of pressure on Hussein, the US and the UK have blocked many proposed reforms._ [Sanctions were requested by US](http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/94/108/01_95_m.html) In fairness, I also found this: [Global Policy 2/27/01](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/turnpoint/2001/0227sct.htm) > [@](#): > > _The Bush administration favors eliminating many of the economic sanctions imposed on Iraq a decade ago and refocusing the restrictions more tightly on President Saddam Hussein’s military and his ability to produce weapons of mass destruction, State Department officials said today. Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, who has been explaining the outline for what officials call “smart sanctions” during his current tour of Middle East capitals, said he did not get support for every detail of the U.S. plan but added, “Everyone I spoke to said you’ve got to go down this track.”_ I also note that Bush came to this conclusion six months _before_ 9/11. So I stand corrected that Junior never objected to sanctions, but they were requested and supported by his father ten years prior to that decision. They were also supported by Clinton, and I don’t remember much of a conservative movement to lift economic sanctions on Iraq prior to 2001 (liberals objected, but they were considered fringe). ---
**Author:** ![DrLizardo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@DrLizardo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrLizardo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/122 "2003-04-09T20:23:02Z")
DtC: Just a quick note that I’m about to leave the office for a dinner engagement, so don’t take my lack of response until tomorrow AM as lack of response to you at all. There’s just no way I can begin to do your post justice in the next 3 minutes. I look forward to reviewing the info you’ve posted here. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong… well… let’s not get crazy here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/123 "2003-04-09T20:27:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Huh, small world, I’ll be 36 on Saturday. Anyway: > **Happy Birthday!** \*\* Thanks, **weirddave** , Happy Birthday to you too. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Against the sanctions AND the war? So what was your solution to the situation then? I never would have given Hussein the go ahead to invade Kuwait in the first place as [April Glaspie](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html) did. Once Iraq was in Kuwait, I would have supported giving weapons and aid to the Kuwaitis, but that’s all. I really didn’t think that the US had any compelling national interest to get involved militarily(other than oil). ---
**Author:** ![Morrigoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/124 "2003-04-09T20:36:54Z")
I am sick and tired of the anti-war protesters trying to “remind” the pro-war folks that war is ugly. NO SHIT! WE KNOW IT’S FUCKING UGLY! We feel that the alternative (eg: Saddam’s regime of torture, fear, and oppression) is far uglier, and on that basis, the war is the lesser of two evils. Nobody is trying to claim war is beautiful. We all studied the same history books in school, we all have equal access to all the movies out there that show how ugly war is. WE KNOW IT’S FUCKING UGLY ALREADY. But I must remind you that war is the price of peace. A more peaceful future for Iraq, must start with a brief period of war now. All other methods were tried and FAILED. And I, for one, do not think it’s inappropriate to occasionally show the “beautiful” side - such as the jubilation on the faces of freed Iraqis - nor is it inappropriate to celebrate with them. We’re not forgetting what it took to get them there, but you can’t overshadow the joy of every birth with the sadness of every death that preceeded it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/125 "2003-04-09T20:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Thanks, **weirddave** , Happy Birthday to you too. 🙂 > I never would have given Hussein the go ahead to invade Kuwait in the first place as [April Glaspie](http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html) did. > > Once Iraq was in Kuwait, I would have supported giving weapons and aid to the Kuwaitis, but that’s all. I really didn’t think that the US had any compelling national interest to get involved militarily(other than oil). \*\* And the link starts of with **"I cannot confirm the reliability of the source, a strange website called which I found via a meta-search engine"** If you are saying we gave the greenlight to invade Kuwait (cough cough bullshit!), you better come stronger then that. Happy B-day btw. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/126 "2003-04-09T21:20:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*And the link starts of with **"I cannot confirm the reliability of the source, a strange website called which I found via a meta-search engine"** > > If you are saying we gave the greenlight to invade Kuwait (cough cough bullshit!), you better come stronger then that. > > Happy B-day btw. \*\* Sorry about the link. There’s a lot of cites for this story, I just sort of posted without reading it thoroughly. How about the [Christian Science Monitor](http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/1999/05/27/p23s3.htm)? Thanks for the “happy birthday.” ---
**Author:** ![More\_Cowbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@More\_Cowbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/More_Cowbell)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/127 "2003-04-09T21:56:13Z")
Nice website! Any links to how we didn’t really land on the moon too and how it was all a government conspiracy? First, as to April Glaspie, here is what [Tariq Aziz](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/oral/aziz/2.html) said about the meeting (notice the fairly reputable cite): > [@](#): > > **Q: In April, what was your assessment of what the Americans would do–what was April Glaspie saying?** > > Aziz: She didn’t tell us anything strange. She didn’t tell us in the sense that we concluded that the Americans will not retaliate. That was nonsense you see. It was nonsense to think that the Americans would not attack us. In the early hours of the 2nd of August, the whole apparatus of the leadership took precautions for an American speedy immediate retaliation. > > With the exception of me, as Foreign Minister, I had to stay in my office, the President and all the leadership apparatus was being repositioned… a precaution from an American attack. So we had no illusions that the Americans will not retaliate against being in Kuwait because they knew that this was a conflict between the two of us-- Iraq and the United States. If anyone would want to claim that the U.S. gave Iraq the go ahead to invade it would be Iraq! But Aziz clearly says this did not happen. In fact, he claims quite the opposite, that they knew by invading Iraq there would be a conflict with the U.S… Weapons and aid? :rolleyes: Just stick to your spouting about the illegality of the war and the war-criminal Bush. Don’t forget your chowder and the bit for the pony, as it seems you are destined to become part of that society. A simple search of your posts will show that. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/128 "2003-04-09T21:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > From a translation of Iraq’s transcript of the meeting, released that September, press and pundits concluded that Ms. Glaspie had (in effect) given Saddam a green light to invade. > > “We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts,” the transcript reports Glaspie saying, “such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary [of State James] Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction … that Kuwait is not associated with America.” That’s a huge leap of logic. Obviously there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, but green lighting the Kuwait invasion was not one of them. I’ll assume, and you should too, that they didn’t have invasion in mind, when they said your business is your own. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/129 "2003-04-09T21:59:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Sorry about the link. There’s a lot of cites for this story, I just sort of posted without reading it thoroughly. How about the [Christian Science Monitor](http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/1999/05/27/p23s3.htm)? > \*\* From that same CSM article: > [@](#): > > In November 1992, Iraq’s former deputy prime minister, Tarik Aziz, gave Glaspie some vindication. He said she had not given Iraq a green light. “She just listened and made general comments,” he told USA Today. “We knew the United States would have a strong reaction.” …which refutes your point. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/130 "2003-04-09T23:10:06Z")
Nothing is refuted. It was a greenlight. She did not warn Hussein not to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/131 "2003-04-09T23:11:44Z")
And even if it wasn’t deliberate, it was incompetent. The administrtion should have clear and unequivocal about what would happen if Iraq invaded Kuwait. ---
**Author:** ![skankweirdall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c6cbf5/32.png) [@skankweirdall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skankweirdall)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/132 "2003-04-10T00:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Nothing is refuted. It was a greenlight. She did not warn Hussein not to do it. \*\* WTF? So unless I tell somebody not to steal my van that in turn means I gave them permission? Let’s face it even Ray Charles isn’t that blind. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/133 "2003-04-10T00:55:48Z")
I remember the joke in the D.C. area back then was that Saddam Hussein was wearing a T-shirt with a pic of April Glaspie, and the caption “Bitch set me up.” [sub]The D.C. part is important - the joke doesn’t make much sense unless you remember the checkered career of Mayor-for-Life Barry.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/134 "2003-04-10T01:08:10Z")
On a more serious note, Tariq Aziz’ story rings false too. > [@](#): > > So we had no illusions that the Americans will not retaliate against being in Kuwait because they knew that this was a conflict between the two of us – Iraq and the United States. At the time, Iraq and the US were pretty cozy, and had been so for the previous decade. We’d ‘tilted’ their way in their war with Iran, providing them with aid (including assistance with what we now call WMD), and winking at their gassing of the Kurds. It was hardly apparent that we’d go to war with them over Kuwait. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/135 "2003-04-10T01:54:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrLizardo \* > I tend to agree. I found it hypocritical as well as naive when they started yelling “b…b…but the Geneva Convention…!!!” Glad to hear it. > [@](#): > > I do have to point out, however, that a black-and-white treaty which various nations have signed is slightly different than a legislative body which various nations have joined but which is organic and is by no means set down in “this is allowed, this isn’t” terms… I think it’s entirely reasonable to ignore or withdraw from the UN without it invalidating the concept of multilateral treaties. The thing is, the UN isn’t just a legislative body; it’s a legislative body with a charter that its members are signatories to. In effect, its terms are a treaty. We are certainly free to withdraw from it without invalidating the concept of a multilateral treaty, but we haven’t yet. It’s one thing to ignore the land-mine treaty that we haven’t signed, or the ABM Treaty that we withdrew from (we did, right? My memory’s fuzzy on that right now), but an entirely different thing to flout the provisions of the Geneva Convention or the UN Charter, both of which which we are still a signatory to. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/136 "2003-04-10T02:54:14Z")
I read the article and it is indeed a terrible thing that happened to the boy. Not just the arms, those burns have to be horrible, and I wonder if he will survive. I guess it depends on the level of his care and the extent of the burns but my guess is that they extend over his whole lower body. If that’s the case it would be questionable whether he would survive even with the best of care. I feel very sorry for him. What a horrbile thing. The pain, the trauma, the loss of family, the loss of both arms, and a very limited and perhaps abbreviated future. I’m not sure I accept the story that is being told at face value though. I don’t know whether I doubt it, or not, but I am skeptical. I am not an expert in wounds or trauma by any way shape or means, but I wonder how a bomb would do what has been done to that poor kid. Specifically, his face is fine. I don’t understand how a bomb can explode with such force that it would remove a person’s arms but leave their face and upper body intact. The arms are on opposing sides of the body. How does what is in the middle get left intact? Additionally, there is the severe burns on the lower body, but not the upper body. It looks like his body was scorched by fire. His injuries appear to be the loss of two arms, which would seemingly to me represent localized trauma, or perhaps something else that I will get to in a moment. The burns suggest he was partially shielded from fire. Not being a forensic expert this doesn’t seem consistent with a bomb. The scenario that seems consistent with his injuries is that he was trapped in a fire of some kind and found partial shelter. Survival instinct will cause him to lodge as much of his upper body in the shelter he finds and use his arms to ward off the fire, or push objects out of his way or onto his lower body to protect it. In any event it is likely that his arms would be most exposed and damaged in attempting to survive a conflagration. It also appears to me from the consistency of the bandaging that his arms were amputated, not blown off. That too, would be consistent with the aftermath of a fire. So, I wonder if it was a burning vehicle or building in which he sustained his injuries. I suppose that is possibly the aftermath of a bomb, but it doesn’t look like a bomb blast did the damage to the child. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/137 "2003-04-10T03:03:55Z")
Part of the reason for my skepticism is that it seems to be a very anti-american article and has what I think are some deliberately inflammatory innacuracies. In the shape he’s in I wonder at his ability to actually say some of the things attributed to him. Then, there’s statements like these: > [@](#): > > Doctors who treated victims of the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war and the 1991 Gulf War were taken aback by the injuries. Dr Duleimi, 48, said: "This is the worst I’ve seen in the number of casualties and fatal wounds. > [@](#): > > “This is a disaster because they’re attacking civilians.” > [@](#): > > Dr Sadek al-Mukhtar said: "In the previous battles the weapons seemed merely disabling. Now they’re much more lethal. I wasn’t aware that bombs, bullets and such had suddenly became lethal. I guess they were shooting ping pong balls and dropping water balloons as bombs before this war. > [@](#): > > Before the war I did not regard America as my enemy. Now I do. War should be against the military. America is killing civilians. I feel horrible for the kid. I don’t trust the accuracy of the reporting of the people propagandizing his plight. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/138 "2003-04-10T07:29:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Once Iraq was in Kuwait, I would have supported giving weapons and aid to the Kuwaitis, but that’s all. \*\* How about some soldiers to use those weapons? Kuwait’s army was about as effective as high school ROTC class. And about the same size. Giving them aid and weapons would have done precisely dick. Squat. Nada. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/139 "2003-04-10T13:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrigoon \* > \*\*I am sick and tired of the anti-war protesters trying to “remind” the pro-war folks that war is ugly. > > NO SHIT! WE KNOW IT’S FUCKING UGLY! > \*\* Oh, you do? Why are you so eager to have one, then? Could it be because you have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what it means when your city is being bombed? > [@](#): > > \*\* > We feel that the alternative (eg: Saddam’s regime of torture, fear, and oppression) is far uglier, and on that basis, the war is the lesser of two evils. \*\* And what makes you competent to decide that? Who died and made you master over life and death over people on the other side of the world? Who authorized YOU to be the one to end the regime, as opposed to the Shiites and Kurds whose death was a TV show for you when they tried to get rid of Saddam? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Nobody is trying to claim war is beautiful. We all studied the same history books in school, we all have equal access to all the movies out there that show how ugly war is. WE KNOW IT’S FUCKING UGLY ALREADY. \*\* No, you don’t. Not if all you know about war is movies and history books. WAR IS NOT A FUCKING TV SHOW. > [@](#): > > \*\* > But I must remind you that war is the price of peace. A more peaceful future for Iraq, must start with a brief period of war now. All other methods were tried and FAILED. > \*\* a) Just because some moron who watched too much Rambo thinks they failed doesn’t make it so. b)There is no guarantee whatsover that Iraq will have a peaceful future. Right at the moment, it’s a looting free-for-all, and the last people with the capability of dealing with such a situation without inflicting a carnage are the so-called ‘liberators’, whose interaction with civilians has already provoked the disgust of their own allies. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And I, for one, do not think it’s inappropriate to occasionally show the “beautiful” side - such as the jubilation on the faces of freed Iraqis - nor is it inappropriate to celebrate with them. We’re not forgetting what it took to get them there, but you can’t overshadow the joy of every birth with the sadness of every death that preceeded it. \*\* Just because you get hand-picked untranslated TV pictures doesn’t mean you have an idea what’s going on there. As long as you have no idea what it means to see a city turn into ruins around you, and see scores and scores of friends and family die, don’t point at people cheering when it’s over, because you couldn’t even begin to graps what they feel. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517/140 "2003-04-10T13:44:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OliverH \* > \*\*Just because you get hand-picked untranslated TV pictures doesn’t mean you have an idea what’s going on there. As long as you have no idea what it means to see a city turn into ruins around you, and see scores and scores of friends and family die, don’t point at people cheering when it’s over, because you couldn’t even begin to graps what they feel. \*\* But can we assume that you can? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/12-years-old-both-arms-blown-off-family-dead-but-hey-hes-free/167517.md?page=8)