12 years old, both arms blown off, family dead, but hey - he's FREE!

Gutless Shrub:

Washington Post 6/28/99

Boston Globe 9/22/99
AWOL Shrub:

Boston Globe 5/23/00

CNN 5/24/00

Washington Post 6/26/00

Tompaine

index of GWB’s military records
US support for UN sanctions

Globalpolicy.org

Sanctions were requested by US

In fairness, I also found this:
Global Policy 2/27/01

I also note that Bush came to this conclusion six months before 9/11. So I stand corrected that Junior never objected to sanctions, but they were requested and supported by his father ten years prior to that decision. They were also supported by Clinton, and I don’t remember much of a conservative movement to lift economic sanctions on Iraq prior to 2001 (liberals objected, but they were considered fringe).

DtC: Just a quick note that I’m about to leave the office for a dinner engagement, so don’t take my lack of response until tomorrow AM as lack of response to you at all. There’s just no way I can begin to do your post justice in the next 3 minutes. I look forward to reviewing the info you’ve posted here. Who knows, maybe I’m wrong… well… let’s not get crazy here.

Thanks, weirddave, Happy Birthday to you too. :slight_smile:

I never would have given Hussein the go ahead to invade Kuwait in the first place as April Glaspie did.

Once Iraq was in Kuwait, I would have supported giving weapons and aid to the Kuwaitis, but that’s all. I really didn’t think that the US had any compelling national interest to get involved militarily(other than oil).

I am sick and tired of the anti-war protesters trying to “remind” the pro-war folks that war is ugly.

NO SHIT! WE KNOW IT’S FUCKING UGLY!

We feel that the alternative (eg: Saddam’s regime of torture, fear, and oppression) is far uglier, and on that basis, the war is the lesser of two evils.

Nobody is trying to claim war is beautiful. We all studied the same history books in school, we all have equal access to all the movies out there that show how ugly war is. WE KNOW IT’S FUCKING UGLY ALREADY. But I must remind you that war is the price of peace. A more peaceful future for Iraq, must start with a brief period of war now. All other methods were tried and FAILED.

And I, for one, do not think it’s inappropriate to occasionally show the “beautiful” side - such as the jubilation on the faces of freed Iraqis - nor is it inappropriate to celebrate with them. We’re not forgetting what it took to get them there, but you can’t overshadow the joy of every birth with the sadness of every death that preceeded it.

And the link starts of with "I cannot confirm the reliability of the source, a strange website called which I found via a meta-search engine"

If you are saying we gave the greenlight to invade Kuwait (cough cough bullshit!), you better come stronger then that.

Happy B-day btw.

Sorry about the link. There’s a lot of cites for this story, I just sort of posted without reading it thoroughly. How about the Christian Science Monitor?
Thanks for the “happy birthday.”

Nice website! Any links to how we didn’t really land on the moon too and how it was all a government conspiracy?

First, as to April Glaspie, here is what Tariq Aziz said about the meeting (notice the fairly reputable cite):

If anyone would want to claim that the U.S. gave Iraq the go ahead to invade it would be Iraq! But Aziz clearly says this did not happen. In fact, he claims quite the opposite, that they knew by invading Iraq there would be a conflict with the U.S…

Weapons and aid? :rolleyes:

Just stick to your spouting about the illegality of the war and the war-criminal Bush. Don’t forget your chowder and the bit for the pony, as it seems you are destined to become part of that society. A simple search of your posts will show that.

That’s a huge leap of logic. Obviously there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, but green lighting the Kuwait invasion was not one of them. I’ll assume, and you should too, that they didn’t have invasion in mind, when they said your business is your own.

From that same CSM article:

…which refutes your point.

Nothing is refuted. It was a greenlight. She did not warn Hussein not to do it.

And even if it wasn’t deliberate, it was incompetent. The administrtion should have clear and unequivocal about what would happen if Iraq invaded Kuwait.

WTF? So unless I tell somebody not to steal my van that in turn means I gave them permission? Let’s face it even Ray Charles isn’t that blind.

I remember the joke in the D.C. area back then was that Saddam Hussein was wearing a T-shirt with a pic of April Glaspie, and the caption “Bitch set me up.”

[sub]The D.C. part is important - the joke doesn’t make much sense unless you remember the checkered career of Mayor-for-Life Barry.[/sub]

On a more serious note, Tariq Aziz’ story rings false too.

At the time, Iraq and the US were pretty cozy, and had been so for the previous decade. We’d ‘tilted’ their way in their war with Iran, providing them with aid (including assistance with what we now call WMD), and winking at their gassing of the Kurds.

It was hardly apparent that we’d go to war with them over Kuwait.

Glad to hear it.

The thing is, the UN isn’t just a legislative body; it’s a legislative body with a charter that its members are signatories to. In effect, its terms are a treaty.

We are certainly free to withdraw from it without invalidating the concept of a multilateral treaty, but we haven’t yet. It’s one thing to ignore the land-mine treaty that we haven’t signed, or the ABM Treaty that we withdrew from (we did, right? My memory’s fuzzy on that right now), but an entirely different thing to flout the provisions of the Geneva Convention or the UN Charter, both of which which we are still a signatory to.

I read the article and it is indeed a terrible thing that happened to the boy. Not just the arms, those burns have to be horrible, and I wonder if he will survive. I guess it depends on the level of his care and the extent of the burns but my guess is that they extend over his whole lower body. If that’s the case it would be questionable whether he would survive even with the best of care.

I feel very sorry for him. What a horrbile thing. The pain, the trauma, the loss of family, the loss of both arms, and a very limited and perhaps abbreviated future.

I’m not sure I accept the story that is being told at face value though. I don’t know whether I doubt it, or not, but I am skeptical.

I am not an expert in wounds or trauma by any way shape or means, but I wonder how a bomb would do what has been done to that poor kid. Specifically, his face is fine. I don’t understand how a bomb can explode with such force that it would remove a person’s arms but leave their face and upper body intact. The arms are on opposing sides of the body. How does what is in the middle get left intact?

Additionally, there is the severe burns on the lower body, but not the upper body. It looks like his body was scorched by fire.

His injuries appear to be the loss of two arms, which would seemingly to me represent localized trauma, or perhaps something else that I will get to in a moment. The burns suggest he was partially shielded from fire.

Not being a forensic expert this doesn’t seem consistent with a bomb.

The scenario that seems consistent with his injuries is that he was trapped in a fire of some kind and found partial shelter. Survival instinct will cause him to lodge as much of his upper body in the shelter he finds and use his arms to ward off the fire, or push objects out of his way or onto his lower body to protect it. In any event it is likely that his arms would be most exposed and damaged in attempting to survive a conflagration.

It also appears to me from the consistency of the bandaging that his arms were amputated, not blown off. That too, would be consistent with the aftermath of a fire.

So, I wonder if it was a burning vehicle or building in which he sustained his injuries. I suppose that is possibly the aftermath of a bomb, but it doesn’t look like a bomb blast did the damage to the child.

Part of the reason for my skepticism is that it seems to be a very anti-american article and has what I think are some deliberately inflammatory innacuracies. In the shape he’s in I wonder at his ability to actually say some of the things attributed to him. Then, there’s statements like these:

I wasn’t aware that bombs, bullets and such had suddenly became lethal. I guess they were shooting ping pong balls and dropping water balloons as bombs before this war.

I feel horrible for the kid. I don’t trust the accuracy of the reporting of the people propagandizing his plight.

How about some soldiers to use those weapons? Kuwait’s army was about as effective as high school ROTC class. And about the same size. Giving them aid and weapons would have done precisely dick. Squat. Nada.

Oh, you do? Why are you so eager to have one, then? Could it be because you have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what it means when your city is being bombed?

And what makes you competent to decide that? Who died and made you master over life and death over people on the other side of the world? Who authorized YOU to be the one to end the regime, as opposed to the Shiites and Kurds whose death was a TV show for you when they tried to get rid of Saddam?

No, you don’t. Not if all you know about war is movies and history books. WAR IS NOT A FUCKING TV SHOW.

a) Just because some moron who watched too much Rambo thinks they failed doesn’t make it so.

b)There is no guarantee whatsover that Iraq will have a peaceful future. Right at the moment, it’s a looting free-for-all, and the last people with the capability of dealing with such a situation without inflicting a carnage are the so-called ‘liberators’, whose interaction with civilians has already provoked the disgust of their own allies.

Just because you get hand-picked untranslated TV pictures doesn’t mean you have an idea what’s going on there. As long as you have no idea what it means to see a city turn into ruins around you, and see scores and scores of friends and family die, don’t point at people cheering when it’s over, because you couldn’t even begin to graps what they feel.

But can we assume that you can?