Elucidator, you speak confidently with 130 years of hindsight behind you. How do you know that 130 years from now, Dubya won’t be reguarded as the perfect man of his time? ( Stop giggling) I’ve heard endless wailing and knashing of teeth over how this war was “going to be another Viet Nam” ( a claim displaying a woeful lack of historical knowledge ), how there would be “Hundreds of thousands” of dead Iraqis, how we would all die under a wave of Islamic fundamentalism, etc… First, yesterday’s statue ceremony notwithstanding, the war isn’t over yet. It has gone very well so far, however, but it’s not over. Second, the hard part is going to be the aftermath of the war, that hasn’t even started yet and it’s already been declared an absolute failure by the anti-war crowd. Bush and company could very well found a stable post war government in Iraq. ( Liberal, western-style democracy is frankly a pipe dream, but a stable regime such as Jordan enjoys is certainly possible ) The pubbies could fuck it up completely. The point is WE DON’T KNOW YET. Why not wait and see what happens before proclaiming the whole thing a failure?
Well, yeah. Which is to say, duh. The trajectory of the shit is going to intersect the locus of the fan, and the splatter pattern remains uncertain. But it is shit, and it is the fan, so…
elucidator, you’re good at putting words in people’s mouths, aren’t you. I did not say that WWII was fought for the purpose of saving the Jews, nor the Civil War for the purpose of freeing the slaves. But Hitler, who was undeniably “vile and depraved”, had to be stopped. And the South rebelled partly (I said partly)because they wouldn’t agree to cease a vile and depraved practice.
War is hell, and there’s no denying that. But so is living under a crazed dictator. And for the Iraqis, that’s over. I still haven’t heard of a better solution, not that it matters at this point.
This is entirely your opinion, based not on facts but on your emotions.
Well, ok, Rilchiam, if this was such a great idea, how come he had to lie us into it?
Prove that he did.
You’re kidding, right? With a straight face, you’ll look me right in the eye and say “GeeDubya says it, I believe it, and that settles it!”
Elucidator:
You don’t know me, and my experience has shown that while you’re occasionally humorous, the great majority of our discourse consists of you baiting me and falsely attributing attitudes and stances to me that I do not have. This latter is a technique you use a lot. You tell other people what they think.
Making things up, and telling people what they think so you can put it down is a different thing from engaging them in discourse.
Most people don’t do this. Quite frankly, people that engage me seriously and openly are much more with more time than those that don’t. More importantly, by wasting my time and getting frustrated with people that don’t, I have discovered that I take out my frustrations on people that are debating in good faith, and then my presence is not constructive.
If you want to defend the asshole who attacked me or accuse me of using that boy’s suffering to pimp my agenda when it’s pretty clear I was advocating nothing more than skepticism, be my guest.
However, I’m not going to engage you on this baiting crap of yours any more.
This however does deserve a “fuck you.”
Fuck you.
And a hearty return, as well. Have you a horse?
Bravo!!
One of the most tiring things to listen to is the diatribes that peaceniks constantly spout that they believe can change the world by sitting around and protesting various actions that are taking place without ever truly coming up with a solution that works. This is by far the first war with the least amount of atrocities, which truly has been done for the greeater good. The peaceful way was tried. I came home from an unfinished task on March 29, 1991. We gave Saddam 12 Years to comply. The peaceful way did not work. During those 12 years more people died than during the length of this current war. It was time to finish it.
“No man is worth his salt who is not ready at all times to risk his well-being, to risk his body, to risk his life, in a great cause”
Theodore Roosevelt
Please don’t bite my sig for your cause.
Iteresting you should bring that up. When they broke into The Price is Right to show us that speech, my SO and I discussed how uncomfortable Powell looked, in contrast to how he usually seemed.
We thought that maybe he didn’t really believe what he was saying…
What you neglect, of course, is that the US was forced into that war kicking and screaming. The US had no intention to liberate these people. Germany declared war on the US, not vice versa.
I already said that I know the Civil War wasn’t about the slaves, and that WWII wasn’t about the Jews. But. At the end of the day, with the United States still united, and the Third Reich dismantled, can you really say those wars were vile and depraved?
Sorry, man, but the peaceful way did work quite well while it was given a chance. It destroyed more chemical weapons and more of the nuclear and bioweapons program than the entire armed forces involved. The first war with the least amount of atrocities done for the greater good? The fact that you were there in 91 is scary enough. Given that your respect for the Geneva Conventions is no greater than that of Saddam, it is obvious in whose good you are interested. Certainly not in that of Iraqi civilians. You have to decide. Either you are willing to lay down your life for them, or stop bullshitting us. And if the first, you rather have an Iraqi unit move ad lib than throwing cluster bombs at a village.
Obviously, since it wasn’t the US who started them. Without the war, millions of innocent people would have lived.
Oh, fuck off you ignorant twat.
…I beg your pardon?..
So, WW2 didn’t stop Hitler from conquering the world? That’s news to me.
He said. ** Oh, fuck off you ignorant twat. **