# 14CV88 banned as racially offensive **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422 "2010-04-26T17:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/81 "2010-04-27T15:37:42Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Just the other day I followed a car with the license plate 4CKJ000. I was amazed that it was issued. Explanation for the un-hip? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/82 "2010-04-27T15:43:05Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > No. A lot of folks _do_ resent being presumed to be sending a racist message which they do not intend. > > More than a few are pissed off, both at those who (in this view) misuse it, and those who misinterpret it. Whether you want to quibble with the racist intent or not (and I think the racist intent is presnt more often than not) it’s unequivovally an _anti-American_ message, and a pro-terrorist one as well. The Confederacy was a racist, terrorist hate group and an enemy of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/83 "2010-04-27T15:56:32Z")
> [@NotreDame05](#): > > It is not consistent with the 1st Amendment. First issue to be resolved is the question of government speech. The government, as speaker, can censor speech consistent with the 1st Amendment. However, the courts have addressed vanity plates and have held vanity plates are private speech, not government speech. Hence, the government may impose view point neutral restrictions, such as no obscenity, vulgarity, etcetera. Now, there may be a difference between vanity plates and specialty plates. > > _ANITA L. KAHN, P v. DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES_, > Court of Appeals of California, Second District. > > _Perry v. McDonald_, 280 F. 3d 159 - Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit 2001 > > _Lewis v. Wilson_, 253 F. 3d 1077 - Court of Appeals, 8th Circuit 2001 Yea, I guess this more or less settles the debate, the Courts seem to have decided that your license plate is a forum for personal speech. This seems kinda bizzare, IMHO, its a government owned chunk of metal (except in AZ, I guess) and the number is primarily there for use by the government in keeping track of your vehicle. But skimming those cases, the Courts seem to have decided its a “government provided forum”, in which case I agree that the State can’t keep you from praising Hitler or whatever there. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/84 "2010-04-27T16:16:49Z")
> [@NotreDame05](#): > > It is view point neutral because the prohibition is not predicated upon the idea expressed but the manner in which it is expressed, i.e. obscene, vulgar. Well, that’s _your_ viewpoint. The definition of obscenity/vulgarity is subjective and in an ideal world, would have absolutely no bearing on any legal decision or proceeding. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/85 "2010-04-27T17:18:15Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Just the other day I followed a car with the license plate 4CKJ000. I was amazed that it was issued. “Forsee King James thousand”? “For Christ Killed Jooos”? “Forck the Jooos”? Help me out here! ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/86 "2010-04-27T17:20:47Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > “Forsee King James thousand”? > > “For Christ Killed Jooos”? > > “Forck the Jooos”? > > Help me out here! “Joo” is internet-speak for “you,”, lord only knows why. So 4CKJ000 means “fuck you”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/87 "2010-04-27T17:24:11Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > “Joo” is internet-speak for “you,”, lord only knows why. So 4CKJ000 means “fuck you”. Huh. All I came up with was “forsake a Jew.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/88 "2010-04-27T17:27:27Z")
If only they’d allow 9 or 10 character custom plates, then this one would be instabanned 14KOGIAFPD ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/89 "2010-04-27T17:28:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Whether you want to quibble with the racist intent or not (and I think the racist intent is presnt more often than not) it’s unequivovally an _anti-American_ message, and a pro-terrorist one as well. The Confederacy was a racist, terrorist hate group and an enemy of the United States. The discussion of the Confederate Battle Flag is no longer relevant in this thread. Drop it. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/90 "2010-04-27T17:30:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Licenese numbers are basically state identifications. They are not free speech. The state doesn’t have to allow you to personalize plates at all, and it certainly does not have to use an identification sequence it doesn’t want to use. There is no free speech right to dictate what sort of identification code the government ahs to use for your vehicle. It is, at the end of the day, the _state’s_ identification code, not the owner of the vehicle. I don’t think this does the job at all. It’s true that states don’t have to allow vanity plates, but you seem to claim that because the government can prohibit a whole mode of speech any content-based restriction they care to impose on that mode of speech is is trivial. And that’s clearly got to be wrong if we care about free speech. Which we do. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/91 "2010-04-27T18:01:10Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I don’t think this does the job at all. It’s true that states don’t have to allow vanity plates, but you seem to claim that because the government can prohibit a whole mode of speech any content-based restriction they care to impose on that mode of speech is is trivial. And that’s clearly got to be wrong if we care about free speech. Which we do. > > –Cliffy Huh, I don’t get what you are trying to say here. The state issues the licenses for their record keeping purposes. It makes as much sense for them to be able to limit what they say as much as they can limit the number of letters and numbers on it, I would think. Please explain to me how these restrictions impose any limitations on someone’s free speech rights. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/92 "2010-04-27T18:14:46Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Huh, I don’t get what you are trying to say here. The state issues the licenses for their record keeping purposes. It makes as much sense for them to be able to limit what they say as much as they can limit the number of letters and numbers on it, I would think. > > Please explain to me how these restrictions impose any limitations on someone’s free speech rights. Could a state permit LV DA GOP but deny LV DA DEMS ? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/93 "2010-04-27T18:16:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Could a state permit LV DA GOP but deny LV DA DEMS ? Actually I would think yes they could, legally. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/94 "2010-04-27T18:42:28Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > “Joo” is internet-speak for “you,”, lord only knows why. I had heard of this Internet thing, but I’ve never run across this before. > [@](#): > > So 4CKJ000 means “fuck you”. And how do you get “fuck” out of “4CK”? Is that Internet-speak too? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/95 "2010-04-27T18:55:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Could a state permit LV DA GOP but deny LV DA DEMS ? > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Actually I would think yes they could, legally. Well, guess what? You’re factually wrong, but at least we have identified the source of the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![NotreDame05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90ced4/32.png) [@NotreDame05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotreDame05)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/96 "2010-04-27T20:18:53Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Actually I would think yes they could, legally. No they could not. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/97 "2010-04-27T20:25:18Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > And how do you get “fuck” out of “4CK”? Is that Internet-speak too? A bit of LEET and bit of slang and a bit of punning. If you have never heard anyone make a joke of “fork you,” (with the same pronunciation as 4ck you), then you may have missed a silly insult, but you have also missed the source of the construction. ---
**Author:** ![NotreDame05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90ced4/32.png) [@NotreDame05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotreDame05)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/98 "2010-04-27T20:25:38Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Well, that’s _your_ viewpoint. The definition of obscenity/vulgarity is subjective and in an ideal world, would have absolutely no bearing on any legal decision or proceeding. Great…we do not live in an ideal world, and “my” viewpoint is presently the law of the land. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/99 "2010-04-27T20:49:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, guess what? You’re factually wrong, but at least we have identified the source of the confusion. I was answering whether I thought they should be able to. I understand the law won’t allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422/100 "2010-04-27T21:06:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Could a state permit LV DA GOP but deny LV DA DEMS ? What if state license plate regulations put a limit of seven characters on a plate? The state could permit LV DA GOP and deny LV DA DEMS then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14cv88-banned-as-racially-offensive/537422.md?page=6)