# 14th Amendment - Section 3: Can it apply to someone running for president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182 "2022-04-21T16:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/41 "2022-04-24T20:51:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Hinckley killing a president does not overthrow the government. Nor do people preventing Congress from meeting for a day or a week overthrows the government. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/42 "2022-04-24T20:53:07Z")
I am willing to bet most of the rioters on January 6 were hoping this would be something that sparked a nationwide uprising rather than deciding to just break shit for an afternoon. I think they were explicit in their desire to oust the current government. - [A Trump supporter who stormed the Capitol told book author the rioters weren’t there to ‘steal things’ or ‘do damage’: ‘We were just there to overthrow the government’](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-supporter-capitol-rioters-there-to-overthrow-government-2021-7) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/43 "2022-04-24T20:55:58Z")
That’s a rather large leap and if the Biden Justice Department wants to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury, then it can try to do that, but IMHO the effort will fail because it simply doesn’t objectively rise to that level. My issue is that conservatives could say the same about BLM protestors or the teachers that I mentioned earlier. It is unlawful and rowdy conduct, not an insurrection. That seems to me as hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/44 "2022-04-24T21:03:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Hinckley killing a president does not overthrow the government. > > Nor do people preventing Congress from meeting for a day or a week overthrows the government They were trying to do a _little bit more than that,_ and you know it. Some of them stormed the Capitol in an attempt to deprive Congressmen and Senators of their _lives_. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/45 "2022-04-24T22:59:49Z")
Okay. I disagree, but let’s roll with that. Are Hinckley, Booth, the guy that shot Scalise, and Oswald guilty of insurrection? It seems that they should be but I never have heard that. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/46 "2022-04-24T23:04:36Z")
Hinkley guilty of attempted murder, Booth guilty of murder, the guy that shot Scalise guilty of, what, reckless conduct? Attempted murder? Unlawful use of a killing machine? You’re a lawyer??? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/47 "2022-04-25T00:32:19Z")
**Warning** for derailing the thread with this post. You know not to do this but persist in bringing up unrelated strawmen into threads in GD and P&E. Stop doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/48 "2022-04-25T21:27:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > That’s a rather large leap… I just saw this: > CNN has obtained [2,319 text messages](http://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/read-mark-meadows-texts-sean-hannity-ivanka-trump-marjorie-taylor-greene/index.html) that former President Donald Trump’s White House chief of staff Mark Meadows sent and received between Election Day 2020 and President Joe Biden’s January 20, 2021 inauguration. > > The vast trove of texts offers the most revealing picture to date of how Trump’s inner circle, supporters and Republican lawmakers [worked behind the scenes](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/politics/mark-meadows-election-fraud-liaison/index.html) to try to overturn the election results and then reacted to the [violence that effort unleashed](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/us/capitol-riot-paths-to-insurrection/) at the US Capitol on January 6, 2021. [SOURCE](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/mark-meadows-texts-2319/index.html) [https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/mark-meadows-texts-2319/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/mark-meadows-texts-2319/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/49 "2022-04-26T00:33:15Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I don’t believe any of them have come to trial yet, so a possibility exists that actual convictions for sedition may happen in the future. > Joshua James, 34, of Arab, Alabama, pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy in connection with the Capitol breach. > **[Leader of Alabama Chapter of Oath Keepers Pleads Guilty to Seditious...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-alabama-chapter-oath-keepers-pleads-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-and-obstruction)** > > A regional leader of the Oath Keepers pleaded guilty today to seditious conspiracy and obstruction of an official proceeding for his actions before, during and after the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. His and others’ actions disrupted a... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/50 "2022-04-26T00:58:45Z")
Thank you. Now we can wait for James to run for federal office and see what the courts say if he does. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/51 "2022-04-26T01:01:38Z")
You asked if there have been any convictions and I supplied one. You didn’t ask if anyone had been convicted and then run for federal office. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/52 "2022-04-26T01:01:51Z")
What will they say? The law says what happens (bolding mine): > Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and **shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.** [SOURCE](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383) I suppose a court case could be brought and run up to the Supreme Court (assuming they agree to take it). That will take some years though. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/53 "2022-04-26T01:11:02Z")
I thanked you for the correction and tagged a comment onto it. Nothing more was meant than “thank you.” ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182/54 "2022-04-26T01:14:34Z")
You’re welcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-amendment-section-3-can-it-apply-to-someone-running-for-president/963182.md?page=2)