# 14th century document in Dutch.  Can someone translate?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [March 18, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510 "2017-03-18T23:09:15Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 17\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\
**Post date:** [March 18, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/1 "2017-03-18T23:09:15Z")

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(I do know some Dutch and would probably be able to work my way through this if it were in modern type. As it’s in an old fashioned manuscript hand, I’m hoping those more fluent than I will be less daunted by the script.)

From the metadata provided by the Utrecht Archive, it’s something to do with the Teutonic Knights, bailiwick of Utrecht. The verso was annotated and/or signed across the top, like a modern bank check, and dated 1397. Is this a sort of letter of credit, perhaps?

[Front.](https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2925/33389422961_7ce449cb28_o_d.jpg)

[Back.](https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3942/32703243033_172a25610f_o_d.jpg)

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**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/2 "2017-03-19T02:01:07Z")

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That makes my head hurt. I can give you most of the first sentence:  
Allen den ghenen die dezen brief zullen zien of horen lezen doe ik…  
It is a somewhat standard start of a proclamation or act way back when.  
All those who read this letter or hear it read, I…  
If you want to take the letters you can now recognize and substitute them through the rest of the text, I think there are enough Dutchies on the board to help you out. It is pretty hard to read, though.

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**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/3 "2017-03-19T02:11:18Z")

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It references 16 years, payments in halves, gold and silver, a bunch of stuff I can almost make out, and apparently the letter was sealed with his seal.

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**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/4 "2017-03-19T04:56:36Z")

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Thanks for looking.

The salutation, then, sounds much like that sometimes seen in old English-language legal documents, e.g. “To all men to whom these presents come, greeting:”  
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

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**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/5 "2017-03-19T23:27:07Z")

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I’m happy to translate anything dutch for you. but this handwriting is hard, to my eyes most of it is nonsense  
the first part seems to be a greeting, the second part a description of payment ( I think it is a lease) conditions and the third part a description of how the letter was sealed.

(this is what I’m reading; feel free to make improvements inside the quote)

> [@](#):
>
> Allen den ghenen die dezen brief zullen zien of horen lezen doe ik daem van zradewije rond en inke-  
> sar is ghehuert hebbe weghens son lamtomender en den ghemenen boucme banden duytzaken  
> hup tuircry. Een boulbinghe gheleghen te komen die zich willaimme zoen van rem in huer  
> waren placht te hebben en komt an boef poeken elfrenhaline ighen lande tussen my of  
> meer gezien near lanc Efo nare om die oude branorro zolde goet van goude en zilver  
> van ghelding of payment baer boer daer men die oude gelde om royen mark turnicht inder  
> wippel. En om burthien Roemre. Die een helft met den Goenren te betalen op den porzzanot  
> En die ander helft op den perkament of binnen Vierthien daghen na elfen termijn ombegre-  
> pen In Remissen de waorheyt want is zelv ghenezight en hebbe zo hebbe is ghebeden  
> gherijt van zradebije sar hi dezen brief oner my wille bezeghelen. En ik ghoni boul hebbe om  
> bede willd daeme Bourghe dezen brief bezeghelt met mijnen zegel Degeme om jaer one heid  
> suzent sriehondt zijne eidtneghenisch die dinpdaghte na onzer broedben dach te hintnippe…

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**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/6 "2017-03-20T07:20:36Z")

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This is enormously helpful!

_daem van zradewije_ is almost certainly would be “daem van schadewyck” using contemporary spelling; this individual is a collateral ancestor whose much altered surname I bear today. _Daem_ is, or was, a Dutch version of the name Adam.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

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**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/7 "2017-03-20T12:38:26Z")

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update

> [@](#):
>
> Allen den ghenen die dezen brief zullen zien of horen lezen doe ik Adam van Schadewyck rond en inke-  
> sar is ghehuert hebbe weghens son lamtomender en den ghemenen boucme banden duytzaken  
> hup tuircry. Een boulbinghe gheleghen te komen die zich willaimme zoen van rem in huer  
> waren placht te hebben en komt an boef poeken elfrenhaline ighen lande tussen my of  
> meer gezien near lanc Efo nare om die oude branorro zolde goet van goude en zilver  
> van ghelding of payment baer boer daer men die oude gelde om royen mark turnicht inder  
> wippel. En om burthien Roemre. Die een helft met den Goenren te betalen op den porzzanot  
> En die ander helft op den perkament of binnen Vierthien daghen na elfen termijn ombegre-  
> pen In Remissen de waorheyt want is zelv ghenezight en hebbe zo hebbe is ghebeden  
> gherijt van Schadewyck sar hi dezen brief oner my wille bezeghelen. En ik ghoni boul hebbe om  
> bede willd daeme Bourghe dezen brief bezeghelt met mijnen zegel Degeme om jaer one heid  
> suzent sriehondt zijne eidtneghenisch die dinpdaghte na onzer broedben dach te hintnippe…

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**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/8 "2017-03-20T13:58:59Z")

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I love the Dope-even when I can’t understand a word of what is being said!  
🙂

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**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/9 "2017-03-20T14:09:02Z")

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The line I could make out in my first reading changed in Librarians effort in red:  
Allen den ghenen die dezen brief zullen zien of horen lezen doe ik Adam van Schadewyck rond en inke-  
sar is ghehuert hebbe weghens son lamtomender en den ghemenen boucme banden duytzaken  
hup tuircry. Een boulbinghe gheleghen te komen die zich willaimme zoen van rem in huer  
waren placht te hebben en komt an boef poeken elfrenhaline ighen lande tussen my of  
meer zestien jaer lang elk jaer om die oude branorro zolde goet van goude en zilver  
van ghelding of payment baer boer daer men die oude gelde om royen mark turnicht inder  
wippel. En om burthien Roemre. Die een helft met den Goenren te betalen op den porzzanot  
En die ander helft op den perkament of binnen Vierthien daghen na elfen termijn ombegre-  
pen In Remissen de waorheyt want is zelv ghenezight en hebbe zo hebbe is ghebeden  
gherijt van Schadewyck sar hi dezen brief oner my wille bezeghelen. En ik ghoni boul hebbe om  
bede willd daeme Bourghe dezen brief bezeghelt met mijnen zegel Degeme om jaer one heid  
suzent sriehondt zijne eidtneghenisch die dinpdaghte na onzer broedben dach te hintnippe…

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**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/10 "2017-03-20T16:15:46Z")

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> [@rbroome](#):
>
> I love the Dope-even when I can’t understand a word of what is being said!  
> 🙂

Seconded!! 😃

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**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/11 "2017-03-20T20:03:13Z")

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Surely someone can now give an English translation?

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**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/12 "2017-03-20T21:55:36Z")

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> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Surely someone can now give an English translation?

Half of the text is still gibberish, even in Dutch which is my first language.

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**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/13 "2017-03-20T22:07:48Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> Allen den ghenen die dezen brief zullen zien of horen lezen doe ik Adam van Schadewyck rond en inke-  
> sar is ghehuert hebbe weghens son lamtomender en den ghemenen boucme banden duytzaken  
> hup tuircry. Een boulbinghe gheleghen te komen die zich willaimme zoen van rem in huer  
> waren placht te hebben en komt an boef poeken elfrenhaline ighen lande tussen my of  
> meer zestien jaer lang elk jaer om die oude branorro zolde goet van goude en zilver  
> van ghelding of payment baer boer daer men die oude gelde om royen mark turnicht inder  
> wippel. En om burthien Roemre. Die een helft met den Goenren te betalen op den porzzanot  
> En die ander helft op den perkament of binnen Vierthien daghen na elfen termijn ombegre-  
> pen In Remissen de waorheyt want is zelv ghenezight en hebbe zo hebbe is ghebeden  
> gherijt van Schadewyck sar hi dezen brief oner my wille bezeghelen. En ik ghoni boul hebbe om  
> bede willd daeme Bourghe dezen brief bezeghelt met mijnen zegel Degeme in het jaar ons here  
> duizend driehonderd ende enenegentig die dinpdaghte na onzer broedben dach te hintnippe…

in the year of our lord 1391?

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**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/14 "2017-03-20T22:52:06Z")

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_Allen den ghenen die dezen brief zullen zien of horen lezen doe ik Adam van Schadewyck rond en inke-_  
All who will see this letter or hear it be read, do I Adam van Schadewyck … and …-

_sar is ghehuert hebbe weghens son lamtomender en den ghemenen boucme banden duytzaken_  
… is hired/rented have because his … and the common … … …

_hup tuircry. Een boulbinghe gheleghen te komen die zich willaimme zoen van rem in huer_  
… … . A building placed to be who Willem son of … … …

_waren placht te hebben en komt an boef poeken elfrenhaline ighen lande tussen my of_  
used to have and will … … … … in the lands between my or

_meer zestien jaer lang elk jaer om die oude branorro zolde goet van goude en zilver_  
more sixteen years long every year … … … … … goods of gold and silver

_van ghelding of payment baer boer daer men die oude gelde om royen mark turnicht inder_  
of accepted means of cash payment … 'cause the old money … … mark … in the  
geldig - legal/accepted  
baar - cash

_wippel. En om burthien Roemre. Die een helft met den Goenren te betalen op den porzzanot_  
… . and in turn … . Who will pay one half with goods on the …

_En die ander helft op den perkament of binnen Vierthien daghen na elfen termijn ombegre-_  
And the other half on paper or inside 14 days after the eleventh period included

_pen In Remissen de waorheyt want is zelv ghenezight en hebbe zo hebbe is ghebeden_  
… In remiss the truth itself is healing and has so it is prayed

_gherijt van Schadewyck sar hi dezen brief oner my wille bezeghelen. En ik ghoni boul hebbe om_  
… van Schadewyck … he this letter under my will be sealed. And I … … have …

_bede willd daeme Bourghe dezen brief bezeghelt met mijnen zegel Degeme in het jaar ons here_  
requested … … … this letter sealed with my seal. … in the year of our Lord

_duizend driehonderd ende enenegentig die dinpdaghte na onzer broedben dach te hintnippe…_  
Thousand threehundert and ninetyone … … after our … … … … … …

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**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/15 "2017-03-21T06:21:35Z")

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_Banden_ looks like modern _bonden_, plural simple past tense “bound”, as to a contract or some other arrangement.

_Perkament_ is parchment, still translated as such by Google. (Just like 14th Century Google would have done).

I’d like to find out what _lamtomender_ could possibly be; taking another look at the document.

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**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/16 "2017-03-21T06:50:56Z")

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The sentence with “lantomender” seems to be about the credentials of the writer.

“Den gemehnen banden boucme duytzaken”

Gemehnen - common

Banden - bonds

Boucme - books

Duytzaken - financial

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**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\
**Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/14th-century-document-in-dutch-can-someone-translate/782510/17 "2017-03-21T17:08:07Z")

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**Librarian** – I was only a reader of this thread but ------- you are awesome! Thanks!