# 15-year-old Russian boy survives 2-hour flight outside plane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556 "2007-09-26T15:47:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Remedial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@Remedial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Remedial)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/1 "2007-09-26T15:47:07Z")
News reports in Russia claim a boy survived a 2-hour flight in the wing of a Boeing-737. From [http://www.en.rian.ru/russia/20070924/80694850.html](http://www.en.rian.ru/russia/20070924/80694850.html), here’s one of the articles: > [@](#): > > MOSCOW, September 24 (RIA Novosti) - A 15-year-old boy from the Urals suffered acute frostbite after riding the wing of a Boeing-737 plane on a two-hour flight from Perm to Moscow, Russian radio station Mayak reported on Monday. > > After clinging on for the entire 1300-kilometer (808-mile) flight to Vnukovo Airport, the boy, named Andrei, collapsed onto the tarmac. His arms and legs were so severely frozen that rescuers were at first unable to remove his coat and shoes, the radio station said. > > The airport did not confirm the report. “We have no information on this,” the Vnukovo press service told RIA Novosti. > > However, Moscow’s air and water transport control department said the radio’s claim was true. A department spokesman said the incident occurred on Friday, and that the boy’s parents were immediately informed, and flew to the capital the same day. > > Doctors said it was nothing short of a miracle that Andrei survived the flight, with temperatures hitting minus 50 degrees Celsius (-58 Fahrenheit), the radio station said. The Boeing-737 has a cruising speed of 900 kmh (560 mph). > > The boy reportedly made the journey after a commonplace domestic dispute. Angry with his father, who reportedly has a drinking problem, and with his mother for siding with her husband in family rows, Andrei ran away to the neighboring village, where his grandmother lives. On reaching the village, he decided to go on, and hitched a 220-km (137-mile) ride to the regional center, Perm, where he was dropped off at the airport. > > It remains unclear how Andrei was able to climb on a plane wing un-noticed, and the Perm Airport security service is being asked some serious questions, the radio station said. > > Andrei is now being treated in a Moscow hospital, Radio Mayak said. As much as I’d like to trust the news source, the only problem they cite is frostbite, but I have trouble swallowing this story for a different reason. Wouldn’t he have suffocated from the lack of oxygen at those altitudes? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/2 "2007-09-26T15:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=Remedial] As much as I’d like to trust the news source, the only problem they cite is frostbite, but I have trouble swallowing this story for a different reason. Wouldn’t he have suffocated from the lack of oxygen at those altitudes? [/QUOTE] Yes, lack of oxygen is just one problem making this story impossible. Time to blackout and then death is meaured in seconds at airliner altitudes. We know that they were very high because it was reported to be so cold. The other major issues is how someone could hold on to a plane going that fast. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/3 "2007-09-26T16:16:54Z")
And like the article said, how do you get up onto the wing in the first place? And what do you hold on to once your on it? ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/4 "2007-09-26T16:19:36Z")
[An update](http://www.en.rian.ru/russia/20070926/80987468.html) seems to indicate he was actually in the wheel well, not on the wing. ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/5 "2007-09-26T16:30:40Z")
Which leads me to question how reliable the “confirmation” was when they didn’t mention he wasn’t really hanging on the wing. Smells like BS to me. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/6 "2007-09-26T16:37:26Z")
I would also guess that with miracles allowing his survival during flight, the fall to the tarmac from the wing would have likely have killed him as well. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/7 "2007-09-26T16:47:47Z")
This has happened before ([link](http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/29/jet-wheel-well-stowa.html)). It sounds as if it should always be fatal, but sometimes the stowaway survives. It would certainly not be possible to survive by clinging to the wing - regardless of the temperature, the human body can’t cope with airspeeds above about 250 to 300 mph. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/8 "2007-09-26T16:54:52Z")
a, Russians are tough. b, Due to some different stuff, the flight could have been made at Flt Lev 200 or lower. c,Temps and stuff are also just ‘reported.’ d, After passing out, still nuff oxygen for life at those altitudes for young clean lungs. d, Although skeptical about all reported info, the [possibility that it happened I will not toss out of hand… e, YMMV ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/9 "2007-09-26T17:57:05Z")
f. Does lil Ivan get to keep his frequent flier miles? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/10 "2007-09-26T19:03:43Z")
In Mother Russia, airplane wing hides in you! ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/11 "2011-12-24T08:04:06Z")
Sorry for the bump, but I felt this story was interesting enough to run a google search on the boy’s name. Surprisingly, there’s a short Wikipedia page on [Andrei Shcherbakov](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Shcherbakov), an amateur Russian football (soccer?) player whose age (19) perfectly lines up with the 2007 news story. Is there any way to determine if this is in fact the same person? Either way, the news story does appear to be legitimate. Wheel well stowaways (NOT clinging to the outside wing!) do happen with some regularity, but survival is extremely rare. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/12 "2011-12-24T10:15:35Z")
When I worked as ground crew for an air carrier, we were warned not to try to stowaway and/or nap in the luggage compartments because they were neither pressurized or heated. This is also why animals have to be stored in a special place away from the rest of the luggage or they will die. I feel like a wheel well would be even worse than the luggage compartment because at least in the luggage compartment you could rummage through for a blanket. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/13 "2011-12-24T12:59:17Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > When I worked as ground crew for an air carrier, we were warned not to try to stowaway and/or nap in the luggage compartments because they were neither pressurized or heated. This is also why animals have to be stored in a special place away from the rest of the luggage or they will die. It is my understanding that they are indeed pressurized. > [@](#): > > Depending on the aircraft, baggage holds are normally inside the hull and are therefore pressurized just like the passenger cabin although they may not be heated. > **[Airliner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airliner)** > > An airliner is a type of airplane for transporting passengers and air cargo. Such aircraft are most often operated by airlines. The modern and most common variant of the airliner is a long, tube shaped, and jet powered aircraft. The largest of them are wide-body jets which are also called twin-aisle because they generally have two separate aisles running from the front to the back of the passenger cabin. These are usually used for long-haul flights between airline hubs and major cities. A smal... Rapid decompression of the cargo hold can cause serious problems: [American Airlines Flight 96](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_96) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/14 "2011-12-24T13:07:57Z")
I would think that if cargo bays were unpressurized, then any sealed containers (shampoo bottles, deodorant bottles, sealed bags, etc) that were in my checked luggage would explode. But if they didn’t explode, the contents would arrive frozen solid after traveling hours at -58 Fahrenheit. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/15 "2011-12-24T14:56:31Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > I would think that if cargo bays were unpressurized, then any sealed containers (shampoo bottles, deodorant bottles, sealed bags, etc) that were in my checked luggage would explode. Why? I’m not a physicist, but isn’t the pressure differential 100 kPa (or 15 psi for the metrically challenged) at most, and realistically much less than that? Most containers and seals should be able to survive that easily. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/16 "2011-12-24T16:05:43Z")
Yes, this is a zombie but I can’t resist … On a typical modern airliner the cargo compartments are pressurized exactly the same as the passenger cabin. It’s certainly true of all models of the 737. What most compartments lack is much airflow. There is some but not a lot. Less airflow means less oxygen supply to feed a fire, and less ducting to let a fire feed back into the rest of the airplane. Which means it gets pretty cold in there. Temps are maintained above freezing so the liquids in folk’s baggage don’t freeze & burst, but not much. IMO a human could survive fine in there as long as they were dressed for however many hours at 35F / 2C & the air supply held out. On a 737 that’d probably be a couple hours before the net inflow of fresh air proves inadequate to the stowaway’s consumption. The emptier the compartment the more room for air; if it’s jammed full of luggage and then you, you’ll run out sooner. One compartment (usually the forward-most) will be equipped with either more airflow or electric heater blankets in the walls. This is where live animals are carried. Along with ordinary luggage as well. This still won’t be real comfortable, but critters don’t complain. A human dressed for temps around 45F / 8C could survive indefinitely in this compartment. If you’re gonna stowaway, this is the place to do it. Hiding in a wheel well offers no pressuriation & no heat. And a very good likelihood of falling out during the takeoff, or being crushed when the wheel retracts into the well. Some airplanes have fairly spacious well areas where if you knew where to be you _could_ avoid being crushed. Others are a real tight fit with no hope of a person finding a person sized- & shaped- space to occupy. As a practical matter there’s very little to hold onto in there, so remaining securely emplaced is far from a sure thing. Enroute you have hypoxia at serious altitude plus the impact of sustained severe cold. Which tends to lead to unconsciousness or frozen limbs. When then tends to lead to falling out when the gear is lowered for landing. Finally, if the landing is less than perfectly smooth it’d be easy to be dislodged by the touchdown impact. That’d be equivalent to falling off your motorcylce at about 150 mph. Serious road rash will result even though you probably won’t find any solid obstacles to impact as you slide to a stop. I’d say this story is highly improbable, but not categorically impossible. The very short flight (137 miles) is what kept the time short enough & the altitude low enough to make this (barely) survivable. That and a mountainous supply of luck. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/17 "2011-12-24T16:44:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Hiding in a wheel well offers no pressuriation & no heat. And a very good likelihood of falling out during the takeoff, or being crushed when the wheel retracts into the well. Some airplanes have fairly spacious well areas where if you knew where to be you _could_ avoid being crushed. Others are a real tight fit with no hope of a person finding a person sized- & shaped- space to occupy. As a practical matter there’s very little to hold onto in there, so remaining securely emplaced is far from a sure thing. > > Enroute you have hypoxia at serious altitude plus the impact of sustained severe cold. Which tends to lead to unconsciousness or frozen limbs. When then tends to lead to falling out when the gear is lowered for landing. There is an interesting first-person (mostly, some is third-person narrative) account of a wheel-well stowaway on a DC-8’s transatlantic flight at [this link](http://www.altitude.org/survival.php). A few excerpts, touching on your concerns: > [@](#): > > As we became airborne, the huge double wheels, scorching hot from takeoff, began folding into the compartment. I tried to flatten myself against the overhead as they came closer and closer; then, in desperation, I pushed at them with my feet. But they pressed powerfully upward, squeezing me, terrifyingly, against the roof of the well… So there I was, my 5 foot 4 inch, 140 pound frame literally wedged in amid a spaghettilike maze of conduits and machinery… > > [When the aircraft landed] there was a sudden, soft plop as the frozen body of Armando Socarras fell to the concrete apron beneath the plane… He had ice over his nose and mouth… > > Doctors said later that my condition was comparable to that of a patient undergoing ‘deep-freeze’ surgery, a delicate process performed only under carefully controlled conditions. Dr. Jose Maria Pajares, who cared for me, called my survival a ‘medical miracle,’ and, in truth, I feel lucky to be alive. It doesn’t sound like it’s always a sure thing–Socarras was nearly crushed by the retracting wheels, there was very little room in the wheel well, the temperatures almost killed him; and apparently, he did black out during the flight, though whether this was due to lack of oxygen is not stated. His small stature and young age (17) likely helped him survive. But he did encounter the problems that you mentioned, and was very lucky to have survived. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/18 "2011-12-24T16:52:04Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > the frozen body of Armando Socarras This obviously falls under poetic licence, though. If he’d been actually frozen, he’d be dead. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/19 "2011-12-24T20:44:57Z")
Forgive me I just looked it up and my memory was wrong: The forward cargo hold is the one that animals HAD to be stored because it is the only one heated and because in the cargo hold there is very little airflow… I wonder if it’s possible to suffocate in the rear on a very long flight even if you were warm? But the cabins apparently are all pressurized, sorry for spreading misinformation (but it’s possible I was told wrong also, ground crew leads aren’t scientists!) These were 737’s and MD-80’s. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556/20 "2011-12-25T03:17:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In Mother Russia, airplane wing hides in you! That’s it, you’re banned! 😃 Just a note: The original report said he hid \*\*in \*\*the wing, not \*\*on \*\*it. It would be 100% impossible for anyone to cling onto a jet airliner’s wing even thru takeoff let alone reaching altitude. And all cargo bays are pressurized, they have to be. The entire fuselage of an airliner is a pressure vessel so if the cargo bays weren’t pressurized, being that they’re inside the pressurized fuselage, they’d have to be made much stronger to resist the crushing force on them. Stronger means heavier, and heavier means more fuel. Plus, as someone mentioned, containers of shaving cream and deodorant would be bursting regularly. Wouldn’t affect the plane at all but would make for unhappy costumers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/15-year-old-russian-boy-survives-2-hour-flight-outside-plane/420556.md?page=2)