# 150,000 Christians are killed for their faith each year? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600 "2012-09-13T14:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/101 "2013-11-11T15:02:02Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Nigeria is in a civil war and the split is along tribal and religious lines. If we say the northern Muslims are killing the southern Christians because they are Christians then it follows the Southern Christians are killing the northern Muslims because they are Muslims. I’m going to need a cite that the sectarian tension and violence experienced in Nigeria today rises to the level of civil war. > [@](#): > > But in reality religion is just one of the issues and ethnic group is more important. Cite needed, in particular relation to the activities of Boko Haram /Islamists. Can you put your link in context? Is it supposed to support your proposition that ethnicity is more important? if so, that cannot be inferred from the linked article. What your linked article omits to mention is that Fulanis are predominately Muslim and the unnamed “native farmers” are Tivs, who are predominantly Christian. I don’t believe it supports my proposition either, as this appears to be more of a fight over scarce resources amongst people whose resources are scarce enough as it is than anything. > [@](#): > > They are not used to say “poor innocent victims, let us offer them help, let us offer them asylum”. No. The argument is just to gain argument points. And for that we have to ignore that the Christians are also fighting and shooting. Cite that civilian Christian (not government) forces /militias are “fighting and shooting” on a comparable scale in Nigeria. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/102 "2013-11-11T15:19:40Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > It is not true that 150,000 Christians are being killed every year for their faith. Just not true. It is not true that Hitler killed six million people because they were Jewish. Just not true. It is not true that any gay people are ever beaten up or killed for being gay. Just not true. It is not true that anyone is ever persecuted for anything. Just not true. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/103 "2013-11-11T15:21:44Z")
Nah. I am not interested in getting all semantic over this. I find the notion that the Christians are legit and right because they are the government while the Muslims are wrong because they are separatists kind of silly. If the Muslims were in the goverment and the Christians were the separatists we’d be hearing about the abusive Muslim government not letting the poor Christians live their life. A huge part of central Africa is a mess for their own tribal and ethnic reasons and for Cristians in developed countries to try to score points on account of some Christians in Africa is beyond silly. It is just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/104 "2013-11-11T15:40:35Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Nah. I am not interested in getting all semantic over this. You (and others) have done nothing else but say “Is not!” based on semantics. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/105 "2013-11-11T15:58:49Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Yep…victim blaming is so much more fun than admitting that there are bad people in this world that do bad things for their own bad reasons. Whoddathunkit? I am perfectly comfortable victim blaming a fair number of idiots who did such feckless things as hiking near the border of a war zone and being arrested as spies, or deliberately preaching Christianity in a country where it is not only illegal, they were copiously warned about the illegality and the punishment for preaching Christianity, or thinking that as Americans, our code of laws superseded that of the country they were visiting. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/106 "2013-11-11T16:35:43Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Nah. I am not interested in getting all semantic over this. Seriously? Do you even recall your earlier post #54? > [@](#): > > Sometimes churches are just convenient places to attack a group of people because they are of a different ethnic group, not because they are Christian. In fact, sometimes the clergy helped with the killings. And you are hardly alone. The reason this thread has lasted for three pages is largely due to semantics. > [@](#): > > I find the notion that the Christians are legit and right because they are the government while the Muslims are wrong because they are separatists kind of silly. Nonsense. Even the briefest look at the members of the Nigerian government at executive, legislative and judicial levels reveals a number of Muslim names. The seat of government is in the south, but that hardly means Muslims are excluded. > [@](#): > > If the Muslims were in the government and the Christians were the separatists we’d be hearing about the abusive Muslim government not letting the poor Christians live their life. I would hope that any human rights abuses would be brought to light and that the focus is on the perpetrator and victims. You are focusing disproportionately on the messenger, and on a small subset at that. > [@](#): > > A huge part of central Africa is a mess for their own tribal and ethnic reasons Again, nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![dolwgan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@dolwgan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolwgan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/107 "2013-11-11T17:32:34Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > How many Egyptian and Pakistani Christians have been killed or displaced in the last 10 years? Who is responsible? What can we do about it? (Besides condemn it which we do) [www.thereligionofpeace.com](http://www.thereligionofpeace.com) has a page that lists > [@](#): > > … targeted acts of terrorism on Christian civilians and church workers by religious Muslims since September 11th, 2001. These attacks have nothing to do with war, combat or insurgency. The victims are innocent Christians who were specifically targeted and abused solely on account of their faith by those who claim their own religion as a motive. > > There may be a few anomalies on the list, as it is compiled by keyword search from our main database. Neither is this a complete account of Islamic terror attacks on Christians since much of the violence goes unreported. I would accept that some of the entries are suspect - such as the store keeper killed by the American serviceman in Richmond earlier this year - do we know that he was a Christian - but since the 2013 incidents alone take up almost 5 sides of A4 and the full list runs to 45 pages, the deaths and injuries listed (which aren’t in anyway exhaustive) add up to quite some figures. > [@](#): > > How many Iraqis have been killed, displaced or lost all their possessions by the American invasion of Iraq? Who is responsible? What can we do about it? Do we even condemn it? How is this any better? Would it be worth comparing this number with the number killed, displaced, etc, prior to the intervention? Think, for instance, of the deaths of Kurds and other ethnic minorities under Saddam and ‘Chemical Ali’. Even those who were affected after the invasion, how many of these suffered for reasons other than the Allied intervention (after all, there were several other nationalities involved other than Americans alone). ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/108 "2013-11-11T17:38:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As opposed to Americans who kill you for being Muslim, for profit, being brown, or just because it’s fun. What percentage of Americans do you think this actually applies to? Because when I mention people who “would have you killed for being gay, having consensual sex, or for disbelieving religion” we are talking about a\* majority\* of Egyptian and Pakistani Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/109 "2013-11-11T17:42:46Z")
> [@dolwgan](#): > > [www.thereligionofpeace.com](http://www.thereligionofpeace.com) has a page that lists “The Politically Incorrect Truth About One Really Messed Up Religion”? :rolleyes: You think that this is a site reasonable people should take seriously, as opposed to say, BBC News? ---
**Author:** ![dolwgan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@dolwgan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolwgan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/110 "2013-11-11T17:45:01Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I am perfectly comfortable victim blaming a fair number of idiots who did such feckless things as hiking near the border of a war zone and being arrested as spies, or deliberately preaching Christianity in a country where it is not only illegal, they were copiously warned about the illegality and the punishment for preaching Christianity, or thinking that as Americans, our code of laws superseded that of the country they were visiting. I’d agree, aru - but not when those people are citizens of the particular state involved. In the late 50s to early 70s, several thousand Nepalese Christians were arrested and sentenced to internal exile for preaching the Gospel, whilst others (many 2nd generation believers) were arrested and charged with converting from the faith of their father. The best news was that by sentencing them to internal exile, they were able to spread the Christian Gospel to parts of Nepal where it had never been heard before, and that several of these 2nd generation believers were able to argue that, by encouraging them to convert to Hinduism, the police and authorities were enticing them to break the law!! If you want to read up on some of this, it’s in a book called ‘Braver than the Gurkhas’ by ‘Sikhar’. ---
**Author:** ![dolwgan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@dolwgan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolwgan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/111 "2013-11-11T17:47:31Z")
> [@WilyQuixote](#): > > “The Politically Incorrect Truth About One Really Messed Up Religion”? :rolleyes: You think that this is a site reasonable people should take seriously, as opposed to say, BBC News? Having looked at the site briefly, I found it quite interesting in a weird sort of way - but this particular list is helpful, insofar as it gives figures for atrocities over a period of about 12 years, some of which may not relate directly to the issue at hand, but is at least somewhere to start. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/112 "2013-11-11T18:01:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is not true that Hitler killed six million people because they were Jewish. Just not true. It is not true that any gay people are ever beaten up or killed for being gay. Just not true. > > It is not true that anyone is ever persecuted for anything. Just not true. > > Regards, > Shodan Actually secular Jews did not get a pass. Neither did converts. No one asked for your shul attendance record. The persecution was based on perceptions of ethnicity, not faith. I suspect some of the same people outraged by persecution of Christians are also outrage by Muslims building a mosque in their neighborhood. Muslims kill Christians. Christians kill Muslims. Christians kill Christians. Muslims kill Muslims. Hindus kill Muslims and vice versa. Religious groups without the power don’t - like the very early Christian Church. But they make up for lost time when they get the power. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/113 "2013-11-11T18:19:03Z")
> [@dolwgan](#): > > Having looked at the site briefly, I found it quite interesting in a weird sort of way - but this particular list is helpful, insofar as it gives figures for atrocities over a period of about 12 years, some of which may not relate directly to the issue at hand, but is at least somewhere to start. Clearly our concept of “interesting” differs markedly. I did a quick test on its reliability. I googled “[religionofpeace.com](http://religionofpeace.com) South Africa.” This is what I came up with: 7/6/2012 South Africa Philippi 14 0 al-Shabaab is suspected in the serial killings of fourteen Christians I never heard of this, even though I can drive to Phillipi in 10 minutes. So I googled “al shabaab philippi christians” This is the only relevant link returned: [http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/terror-group-targeting-local-christians-bishop-1.1340914#.UoEdefmBHVI](http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/terror-group-targeting-local-christians-bishop-1.1340914#.UoEdefmBHVI) Now IOL is a legitimate SA news site; however that report was published in a local tabloid. Nor did the article state anything stronger than > [@](#): > > police are now investigating new evidence that the killings have been carried out by Somalia-based Al-Shabaab. So just one random example, picked purely because it took place in my country, is not an Islamist incident at all; and it is included purely on the basis of a report in a single tabloid, a report which merely stated “police are investigating links”. The list is likely to be full of similar bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/114 "2013-11-11T18:24:34Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Which division was sent in? I missed your post last year. I don’t understand your question regarding our [intervention](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_intervention_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina)in this war? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/115 "2013-11-11T21:35:18Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > As opposed to Americans who kill you for being Muslim, for profit, being brown, or just because it’s fun. > > What percentage of Americans do you think this actually applies to? The great majority. Which is why we constantly are doing exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/116 "2013-11-11T22:41:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The great majority. Which is why we constantly are doing exactly that. Where are the popular political and religious leaders who say that people should be killed “for being Muslim, for profit, being brown, or just because it’s fun.”? Where are the polls that back up your claims that this is a commonly held view among Americans? Because until you provide this I am going to use my anecdotal knowledge as an American myself that these sorts of opinions are rare. Then I must conclude that your statement is hyperbole born of a reluctance to be critical of what you see as non-white/non-Western culture. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/117 "2013-11-11T22:48:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I missed your post last year. I don’t understand your question regarding our [intervention](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_intervention_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina)in this war? the question is straightforward. You claimed that we sent in troops and sorted it out. I asked what division was sent in. We used air power to paralyze various Serbian actions, but I do not recall the U.S. putting any troops on the ground beyond a few advisers. Certainly, U.S. troops played no part in “sorting them out.” U.S. air power and diplomatic efforts (channeled through NATO) were significant, but U.S. Troops played almost no role in the war. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/118 "2013-11-11T23:47:41Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Where are the popular political and religious leaders who say that people should be killed “for being Muslim, for profit, being brown, or just because it’s fun.”? :rolleyes: Why should anyone care what they say? What matters is what they do, and support being done. And again; Americans like to pretend that they are the good guys, so of course they aren’t honest enough to outright say that very often. They just spout some transparent handwaving about how they are killing people to free them. If anything, one of the biggest differences between Muslim fanatics and American imperialists & Christian fundies is that the Muslim fanatics haven’t learned to lie as much. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Where are the polls that back up your claims that this is a commonly held view among Americans? The elections where politicians who order such things get elected and re-elected. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/119 "2013-11-12T02:45:27Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > the question is straightforward. You claimed that we sent in troops and sorted it out. > > I asked what division was sent in. > > We used air power to paralyze various Serbian actions, but I do not recall the U.S. putting any troops on the ground beyond a few advisers. Certainly, U.S. troops played no part in “sorting them out.” U.S. air power and diplomatic efforts (channeled through NATO) were significant, but U.S. Troops played almost no role in the war. I don’t know what division was sent in. I do know troops were there on the ground and dealt with the aggressors involved. Here’s a [cite of them leaving after 9 years](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11164-2004Nov24.html). And [here is a list of those killed there](http://peacetime-casualties.findthedata.org/d/b/Bosnia-and-Herzegovina) on behalf of the people of Bosnia. So whatever semantic point you want to make about the troops by all means go ahead. I realize none of them had relatives who frequent the dope and could share in their sorrow but I think they deserve more than you’re giving them. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600/120 "2013-11-12T03:03:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The great majority. Which is why we constantly are doing exactly that. Der Trihs, you must learn to rein this in. You continue to allow your strongly held political beliefs to take you too far. Your statement that the great majority of Americans kill people for being Muslim, being brown, for profit or just for fun is - to my moderator’s eyes - no different than if you had said “the great majority of blacks will steal” or “the great majority of French are smelly” or something else equally ridiculous. Just because the group you are being prejudiced is your own - Americans - doesn’t make it less odious. There’s a strong current of self-criticism in American culture and that’s a good thing. But your version of self-lambasting is entirely negative and not geared towards improvement - which criticism should be. If you must be so offended by the actions of Americans that you must resort to rhetoric of this kind, please take it to the BBQ Pit where it is better served. This is a warning. Don’t do it again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-000-christians-are-killed-for-their-faith-each-year/634600.md?page=7)