# $150 for WORD? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448 "2004-12-01T04:08:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/21 "2004-12-02T00:50:02Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > I’m seeing good ol’ Windows 3.0. Granted is was more popular in its 3.11 version. EIther way, upgrading is probably not a bad idea. Thing is, I would **not** expect a version of Excel that ran in old-school Win3.0, to survive XP (except maybe in “compatible mode”, and even then I’d raise an eyebrow). Heck, things that ran on late-model W3.1 were already failing me in W **98** , and that was a direct-line descendant. Back to the OP, I am to assume that he means he dowloaded MS’s “trial version”, and now has discovered what it’ll cost him to _really_ buy it. But he does have me confused about the package in question by calling it “Works and Money” but then referring to Powerpoint and Excel, which did NOT come with WaM. _He may not be using after all the same product_ as came OEM. Windows _Works Suite_ contains Word and Money, plus spreadsheet and database apps _that are NOT Excel or Access_, as mentioned before. Late versions retail between $70 and $100. MS **Office** , _“Student and Teacher Version”_, which for XP retails for $150 if you have a student ID, DOES contain Word + Excel + Powerpoint. “Works and Money” was IIRC what they called the versions 4.0 thru 2002 of Works Suite, that shipped as OEM bundles. Looking at the MS product page, there is NO current-version software package titled “Works and Money” – there’s stand-alone Money($80-90), there’s stand-alone Works ($50), and there’s Works Suite ($100). If he’s trying to replace an OEM Works-and-Money bundle with a combined current-issue Money + Works, or a 2003-or-later Works Suite, he’s buying _upgrades_. I’d say that if he has no access to recovery disks or to redress from the shop for hosing his applications, he should look into the various Office-alternatives that have been brought up in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/22 "2004-12-02T00:50:46Z")
Sooo, to hijack: If I bought a used computer with Win2K installed, with product key sticker but no CD is it fair usage to burn a buddy’s copy for myself? I was thinking of tinkering around with partitions and linux but I don’t want to work without a net. I guess it’s not a complete hijack- if Word was included in the OP’s purchase agreement could he do the same (burn a bud’s copy)? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/23 "2004-12-02T01:03:52Z")
My new computer only came with a trial version of Office too. I just wanted the latest version of Word, which I found out hasn’t really be updated in a couple of years, so you can do what I did: Look on ebay for a still sealed (therefore unused/unregistered) copy of MS Works Suite 2002. The most recent version of Word (and the 2002 versions of works, money, encarda, picture it and streets& trips) is in it, and they have overstock copies they were never able to get rid of for about $10-15. You can probably get excel and powerpoint in “older” versions too, since they only change them every couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/24 "2004-12-02T05:34:40Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And as mentioned before, if they were bundled OEM, he should be able to restore _the ones in the bundle_, from restore disks, or to demand that the service shop that borked the programs make things right (even when one or my notebooks died and the HDD had to be hosed, I did not leave the shop until I saw that it had everything OEM still there). Which should not have required him to do a new-install. > > **Cicada2003** has a slightly better gripe, but only slightly – you _can_ run many older-Windows programs on "compatible’ mode, but NOT many others, and it is not always obvious which… but at least to me _THAT_ was a known danger of going up to XP. > > (but please tell me that by “it ran with 3.0” you mean **NT** … ) Actually no, it was Windows 3-something. I now have discs for Word 97, MS Publisher 2000, Excel 6, Word Perfect 5.1+ (which, by the way, I just love–it’s running on my 486, under DOS), Word Perfect 6, Word Perfect 7, and Word Perfect 9. I have not been able to reinstall any of these since upgrading to XP (although, with the old versions of WP I wouldn’t even try. I KNOW 5.1+ is not going to run on this computer.) I also have–supposedly, on the restore disk–a great program for formatting CDs and copying music, data, or video CDs, ArcSoft photo studio (which I found easier to use than Photoshop), FrontPage, which I was going to learn but never got around to and now I guess it’s too late, and Publisher, which I used all the time. Along with several other nice little programs that I miss a lot but which I really don’t have enough money to pay for again. I suppose I should have known this would happen, but I didn’t. According to experts (my kids) I am doing something wrong as the last step in installing WP9–it should work–but . . … Rant, rant, rant! Not to mention which I’m a Luddite. I know how ArcSoft works. I don’t WANT to learn Photoshop! I also lost Microsoft Works, which did in fact come “free with the hardware” when I bought the computer. I never made documents with it, but some people I deal with use it (I do freelance editing) and now I can’t open those files, either. Had to tell them to get Word. Now my computer has not crashed at ALL with XP, which is nice. But I don’t know if it was worth it. I can’t listen to CDs on my computer, but I can talk to it and tell it to exit, and even dictate to it (that’s kind of interesting). I can open my new digital photographs but I can’t edit them, and I can’t get into the ones I put on the computer before I upgraded–although I can see that they’re still there. Quite apart from the $$ I’ve spent way more hours dealing with this than I ever wanted to, look bad to people I was dealing with (the Works users), and I blame Microsoft for selling me a shitty crash-prone product in the first place, HP for installing it on the computer and telling me my warranty would be invalidated if I changed it. I guess while I’m at it I will blame Kerry for losing the election. :wally Microsoft also has a bad habit of only supporting its products for about ayear and a half, until it comes out with a newer, shinier, better version. Why don’t they just not release it until it works? Do it right the first time. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/25 "2004-12-02T05:51:02Z")
WordPerfect 9, at least, should install on XP. I used it for a while on an old Dell that was running XP Pro. Something is obviously amiss with your computer. I also installed Works 4.5 on XP and it did fine, and that’s a pretty old and creaky version of Works. I’m also pretty sure (but not 100% positive) that you could install FrontPage 98 (if that’s the version you have) on XP. If you’ve got FrontPage 98 or above, I’d recommend learning it. It’s fun, even if it doesn’t produce the most clean code. (Who cares—it’s fun!) ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/26 "2004-12-02T06:02:04Z")
Also, just FYI, Microsoft has a policy of selling academic versions of the software without asking for a student ID. Perhaps you could say we’re all just, “students of life?” In other words, Microsoft pretty well intends for the academic pricing to be available to home users, but not to business users. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/27 "2004-12-02T14:07:12Z")
BTW, what with it having become customary for computer makers to provide you a branded, system-specific “restore disk” rather than actual _installation disks_ for Windows and the bundled applications, people like **Cicada2003** are extra-hosed if a significant OS upgrade borks their OEM programs, because the “restore disk” seeks to restore you to _factory_ configuration. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/28 "2004-12-02T14:47:36Z")
> [@Cicada2003](#): > > But, since they weren’t free with the computer, he’s already paid for them once. Right? > > And now Microsoft has figured out a way so he has to pay for them _again._ Put me in the “tough titty” camp. If you bought a used Celica from Honest Ron’s Used Car Lot and destroyed the engine, would you blame Toyota for wanting to charge you for a new one? Does Toyota somehow owe you a free lifetime supply of engines? Imagine applying this line of thinking to grocery stores. “Why should I have to pay for another steak? I already paid you once for one! Give me my free steak!” ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/29 "2004-12-02T14:50:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Sooo, to hijack: > > If I bought a used computer with Win2K installed, with product key sticker but no CD is it fair usage to burn a buddy’s copy for myself? I was thinking of tinkering around with partitions and linux but I don’t want to work without a net. > > I guess it’s not a complete hijack- if Word was included in the OP’s purchase agreement could he do the same (burn a bud’s copy)? Probably not. You have to crack the code first before you can make a copy. I don’t think the key would match the burned copy anyway. You’d have to use the key that came with the burned copy and then TWO users would have the same keyed software. I just don’t think it would work, though I’m not positive. I have had _some_ experience in the area but not the technical side of it. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/30 "2004-12-02T15:03:47Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Probably not. You have to crack the code first before you can make a copy. I don’t think the key would match the burned copy anyway. I don’t know about the legality of copying a friend’s disc (although it seems morally fine to me if you have paid for a licence), but the keys definitely aren’t tied to individual copies of the install disc. The discs for any given version of Windows are all identical, and will work with any valid product key for that version. I presume they’d like to link keys to physical CDs, but are prohibited from doing so by manufacturing costs. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/31 "2004-12-02T19:25:43Z")
**Dead Badger** is correct, there are no technical problems for what I asked about- merely legal. Once again people walk into the fool’s land of metaphor/analogy when discussing intellectual property. Nobody has to replace his computer’s “engine” or any such nonsense. He could borrow an install CD and not a single other person in the world would have to lift a finger. So kindly dispense with the useless examples and discuss the actual laws/renumeration schemes. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/32 "2004-12-02T19:29:26Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Put me in the “tough titty” camp. If you bought a used Celica from Honest Ron’s Used Car Lot and destroyed the engine, would you blame Toyota for wanting to charge you for a new one? Does Toyota somehow owe you a free lifetime supply of engines? > > Imagine applying this line of thinking to grocery stores. “Why should I have to pay for another steak? I already paid you once for one! Give me my free steak!” If you’re going to use the car analogy, it’s more like, “Well, Cicada, we’ve replaced your windshield. Now, we forgot to mention this, but with your new windshield you also have to upgrade your seat belts, turn signals, brakes, headlights, heating system, and timing chain . . .” The grocery store analogy doesn’t work at all. You buy software, but in using it you don’t consume it. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/33 "2004-12-02T21:43:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > **Dead Badger** is correct, there are no technical problems for what I asked about- merely legal. So, you’re saying that you could buy a copy of Word or Office from Best Buy and then burn a hundred copies without any fancy hacking knowledge? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/34 "2004-12-02T21:49:36Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > So, you’re saying that you could buy a copy of Word or Office from Best Buy and then burn a hundred copies without any fancy hacking knowledge? Hmmm. All you need is a CD burner and the necessary software for it, which should have come with the drive when you bought it. Of course, a lot of stores won’t accept returns of software if it’s been opened. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/35 "2004-12-03T01:34:25Z")
> [@Cicada2003](#): > > If you’re going to use the car analogy, it’s more like, “Well, Cicada, we’ve replaced your windshield. Now, we forgot to mention this, but with your new windshield you also have to upgrade your seat belts, turn signals, brakes, headlights, heating system, and timing chain . . .” Well, the OS is _not_ the equivalent of the windshield… but yeah, these analogies are useless… with a computer OS, it’s a different world, one that _does_ work that way, never mind that our cars don’t. Ever since WXP was rolling out in '01, I’ve been hearing warnings to not assume a commitment to retrocompatibility. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/36 "2004-12-03T02:08:03Z")
> [@](#): > > So, you’re saying that you could buy a copy of Word or Office from Best Buy and then burn a hundred copies without any fancy hacking knowledge? Like **Tuckerfan** said, basically: Yup. You realize it’s perfectly legal to make copies of software you’ve purchased, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/37 "2004-12-03T02:12:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Like **Tuckerfan** said, basically: Yup. You realize it’s perfectly legal to make copies of software you’ve purchased, right? Sort of legal, anyway. The software companies are really trying to clamp down on this, and I think that there may be some provision in the EULAs which says that you agree _not_ to do this. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/38 "2004-12-03T02:15:40Z")
I also wanted to reaffirm **JRDelerious** ’s point, that MS was quietly warning about of a lack of backward compatibility with XP. There is no responsibilty in my mind to provide backward combatibilty as long as buyers are fairly warned. It is a new product after all. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/39 "2004-12-03T02:18:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Tuckerfan:_ > The software companies are really trying to clamp down on this, and I think that there may be some provision in the EULAs which says that you agree not to do this. As long as it’s for personal backup purposes I don’t forsee much legal success in the clamping down. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448/40 "2004-12-03T04:22:12Z")
Bah. Fuck the EULAs and download OpenOffice. Life is too goddamned short to deal with legal bullshit just to use software. Microsoft has priced itself out of the market, and it’s damned well time it figured that out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-for-word/277448.md?page=3)