# 150 Years Ago Today: The (1st) Battle of Manassas/Bull Run **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 21, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891 "2011-07-21T19:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Real\_Regency\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@The\_Real\_Regency\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Real_Regency_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/21 "2011-07-22T14:24:25Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > During the First Battle of Bull Run the area was, as it is now, in the middle of a major heat wave. There are accounts of the surgeons (surgeons were far inferior to doctors in prestige and training) performing the hundreds of amputations and other procedures after the battle almost naked due to the heat, and there were deaths before, after and during the battle from heat stroke. Ironically, today all of the outdoor re-enactment events are canceled from 2-6 PM. I do feel for the participants wearing those heavy wool uniforms. BTW I live and work in Manassas. The Battery Heights hill is fairly close to our house. It’s not a big, sexy site like the actual battlefields are, but it’s neat to visit, being obscure and unmarked as it is. The old homestead and graves are lovely and the views are good too. My commute takes me through Old Town - I think today I’ll just take Wellington all the way home. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/22 "2011-07-22T15:30:37Z")
> [@The\_Real\_Regency\_Elf](#): > > Ironically, today all of the outdoor re-enactment events are canceled from 2-6 PM. 😃 I find that way funnier than I should. Of course the reenactments I’ve been to have had no shortage of obese soldiers. It’s always been funny to me that some (certainly not all) of these guys pride themselves that everything down to and including their underwear and eyeglass frames are exact period reproductions (manufactured by slaves and genuine malnourished Irish immigrants if at all possible) to get that exactly accurate feel- but then the guy is 120 pounds heavier than any footsoldier in the war. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/23 "2011-07-22T17:15:53Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > McDowell was the first of Lincoln’s commanders to drag his feet and pay for it, and this would become a major problem Bizarrely, McDowell would find himself on this same battlefield a year later, fighting _Second_ Manassas/Bull Run, as a senior commander under John Pope…and again facing Stonewall Jackson. McDowell’s men didn’t trust him and knew his association with the previous defeat on this field, and muttered dark rumors that he planned to betray them. The Union indeed came to grief in that second encounter, with far heavier losses. Pope had bragged about his prowess (among other things, by titling his dispatches “Headquarters in the Saddle” instead of a particular location, he was taking a shot at McClellan’s immobility). During the second battle, McDowell was experimenting with a wicker hat he had designed, seeking better air circulation and a cooler head. The Union troops memorably complained that Pope had his headquarters where his hindquarters ought to be, and McDowell had his head in a basket. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/24 "2011-07-22T19:36:17Z")
The best I have is my 3rd great grandfather, Andrew Kessler Jr., was a Maryland state representative. He was arrest with 15 or so others in September of 1861 for wanting to succeed from the Union. He was released a few days later when he changed his mind. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/25 "2011-07-22T19:48:16Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Bizarrely, McDowell would find himself on this same battlefield a year later, fighting _Second_ Manassas/Bull Run, as a senior commander under John Pope…and again facing Stonewall Jackson. > > McDowell’s men didn’t trust him and knew his association with the previous defeat on this field, and muttered dark rumors that he planned to betray them. The Union indeed came to grief in that second encounter, with far heavier losses. > > Pope had bragged about his prowess (among other things, by titling his dispatches “Headquarters in the Saddle” instead of a particular location, he was taking a shot at McClellan’s immobility). During the second battle, McDowell was experimenting with a wicker hat he had designed, seeking better air circulation and a cooler head. > > The Union troops memorably complained that Pope had his headquarters where his hindquarters ought to be, and McDowell had his head in a basket. Now that’s _funny_. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/26 "2011-07-22T20:02:45Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > -It was where Thomas Jonathan Jackson became, effective immediately and henceforth and forever, Stonewall (and we got [this great song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKmzEUpCsrQ)) _It was 150 years ago today, Colonel Jackson brought his troops to play… You’re such a lovely audience We’d like to take you home with us We’d love to take you home Now get the f… out of the road_ ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/27 "2011-07-22T20:15:04Z")
Another significance of the battle was that Jackson specifically ordered his troops to scream like banshees as they charged. This was the beginning of the rebel yell. (Psychological warfare is nothing new, whether it’s painting your face blue or the rebel yell or putting whistles on bombs.) There are a few recordings of the rebel yell being done by veterans, but [this is the one](http://26nc.org/History/Rebel-Yell/rebel-yell.html)that probably comes closest to conveying the horror of it. (WARNING: VERY LOUD [and if you have dogs nearby they’ll go berserk].) Imagine it being done by _thousands_ of much younger men, most of whom you can’t see because of the smoke of the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/28 "2011-07-22T20:47:06Z")
The Yankees must have made an extra effort to supress the habit. I’ve read that when the Germans first encountered Americans in WWI, they were unnerved _because_ of how quietly they went into battle, compared to screaming poilus and singing Tommies Re the crossroads vs body of water naming conventions: my mom obtained her great-grandfather’s service record and asked about the battle of Pittsburg Landing. That was the Union’s name for Shiloh. I’m glad the latter name has prevailed, since it sounds more dramatic, whereas “Pittsburg Landing” evokes gracious waterfront views with close access to schools and major shopping centers. (BTW, true fact about First Bull Run: the Marines were there, _and the broke and ran_. Suck on that, bellhops!:p) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/29 "2011-07-22T21:39:08Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > The best I have is my 3rd great grandfather, Andrew Kessler Jr., was a Maryland state representative. He was arrest with 15 or so others in September of 1861 for wanting to succeed from the Union. He was released a few days later when he changed his mind. That would be secede, not succeed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/30 "2011-07-23T00:18:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > That would be secede, not succeed. 🙂 Well he did succeed in getting arrested for trying to secede, how’s that? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/31 "2011-07-23T00:32:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > There are a few recordings of the rebel yell being done by veterans, but [this is the one](http://26nc.org/History/Rebel-Yell/rebel-yell.html)that probably comes closest to conveying the horror of it. (WARNING: VERY LOUD [and if you have dogs nearby they’ll go berserk].) Imagine it being done by _thousands_ of much younger men, most of whom you can’t see because of the smoke of the battlefield. A sound my great-great grandfather surely heard in the battle in which he was captured. According to an account of the Battle of Jerusalem Plank Road (just south of Petersburg), June 22, 1864: “with a wild yell which rang out shrill and fierce through the gloomy pines, Mahone’s men burst upon the flank - a pealing volley, which roared along the whole front - a stream of wasting fire, under which the adverse left fell as one man - and the bronzed veterans swept forward, shriveling up Barlow’s division as lightning shrivels the dead leaves of autumn.” The Confederates took 1,700 prisoners in the Union rout, one of whom was my great-great grandfather. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/32 "2011-07-23T00:49:12Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Later in the war both sides sometimes gave P.O.W.s the option of imprisonment or changing sides. I’m not certain what security measures they took to ensure loyalty or non-desertion of such men, but there was no shortage at all of men who fought, consecutively, for both sides. My understanding was that surrendered ex-Confederates were generally sent to the West to fight Indians, which would have made that part of the Army disproportionately Southern. Perhaps some of the later strife out there is attributable to those men having brought their racial attitudes with them? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/33 "2011-07-24T23:06:36Z")
I remember an Encyclopedia Brown mystery involving an erroneous inscription on a sword about the 1st Battle of Bull Run. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/34 "2011-07-25T01:10:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > My understanding was that surrendered ex-Confederates were generally sent to the West to fight Indians, which would have made that part of the Army disproportionately Southern. Perhaps some of the later strife out there is attributable to those men having brought their racial attitudes with them? Some were, but some were sent to fight for the Union. As for racial attitudes, southerners far from held a monopoly on anti-Indian sentiment before, during or after the war. (Case in point: Custer.) The white P.O.W.s at Andersonville were offered the option of fighting for the south and a farm after the war, though to my knowledge none took the option. (This was in '64 when the south was _really_ desperate. (This was included in the better-than-average-for-TV-history movie [Andersonville](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115097/); the main thing wrong with the movie was the impossibility of getting actors who both looked like the p.o.w.s there and were able to work.) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/35 "2011-07-25T01:17:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > … > Speaking of strange turns, another great-great-great grandfather was a 45-year-old German tailor who enlisted in the “Fifth German Rifles” (45th NY Infantry). He was captured in his regiment’s first skirmish with the enemy, when they were on picket duty at Annandale south of Washington and the Confederate cavalry rode through their lines… I was in Annandale earlier today, near the intersection of Little River Turnpike and Columbia Pike where I assume that this occurred. It’s been built up quite a bit and is now a Koreatown. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/36 "2011-07-25T01:54:14Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > I remember an Encyclopedia Brown mystery involving an erroneous inscription on a sword about the 1st Battle of Bull Run. I remember my teacher reading us that one in the 3rd grade. It was supposed to be Robert E. Lee’s sword. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/37 "2011-07-25T02:03:55Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > I remember my teacher reading us that one in the 3rd grade. It was supposed to be Robert E. Lee’s sword. Stonewall Jackson actually. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891/38 "2011-07-25T02:04:49Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Stonewall Jackson actually. Ah, you’re probably right. It’s been 16 years, I’m just surprised I remember as much as I do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/150-years-ago-today-the-1st-battle-of-manassas-bull-run/589891.md?page=1)