# 16 Candles **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 13, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620 "2014-01-13T00:45:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/21 "2014-01-15T04:21:19Z")
Also note, he uses the phrase “violate” in relation to having relations with a passed out girl… ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/22 "2014-01-15T04:40:51Z")
Wait, I thought rape was supposed to be high-larious, and leads to the woman falling for you. Don’t tell me _Revenge Of The Nerds_ lied to me?! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/23 "2014-01-15T04:42:42Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > That scene wasn’t supposed to be funny though, it’s to show that Jake doesn’t give a shit about Caroline and would rather be with Samantha - the girl he really likes. I’m not saying it makes him a good guy, it doesn’t, but the exchange wasn’t put in for laughs. Are you sure the scene wasn’t supposed to be funny? Because it sure seems like it’s meant to be seen as light and comedic: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf\_sT\_IcMc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf_sT_IcMc). I’m not picking up on anything that indicates that the filmmakers _intended_ for it to be disturbing that these two guys are having a nice, friendly chat about how easy it would be to rape an unconscious girl. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/24 "2014-01-15T04:53:02Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Looking back now the Donger seems pretty offensive. We laughed at the time. The movie Vacation had what now seems like a pretty poor joke when the family gets lost in St. Louis and ends up in a heavily African American neighborhood. I remember hearing that Harold Ramis is now embarrassed about that scene and would do it differently or not at all now. Well. I have a big ol eyeroll for Harold. I preferred it back in the day when we could all acknowledge our differences and laugh about them too. See: SNL season one with Richard Pryor. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/25 "2014-01-15T04:53:53Z")
The OP might be interested in reading Roger Ebert’s review of _Sixteen Candles_ from when it was originally released. It’s online at [Sixteen Candles movie review & film summary (1984) | Roger Ebert](http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/sixteen-candles-1984), and it sounds like the movie was not considered particularly controversial. Excerpt: “If _Sixteen Candles_ begins to sound a little like an adolescent raunch movie, maybe it’s because I haven’t suggested the style in which it’s acted and directed. This is a fresh and cheerful movie with a goofy sense of humor and a good ear for how teenagers talk…it’s about young kids who think a lot about sex, but who are shy and inexperienced and unsure and touchingly committed to concepts like True Love.” Ebert also said that Gedde Watanabe, the actor who played Long Duk Dong, “elevates his role from a potentially offensive stereotype to high comedy”. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/26 "2014-01-15T06:01:12Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The OP might be interested in reading Roger Ebert’s review of _Sixteen Candles_ from when it was originally released. It’s online at [http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/sixteen-candles-1984](http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/sixteen-candles-1984), and it sounds like the movie was not considered particularly controversial. > > Excerpt: > “If _Sixteen Candles_ begins to sound a little like an adolescent raunch movie, maybe it’s because I haven’t suggested the style in which it’s acted and directed. This is a fresh and cheerful movie with a goofy sense of humor and a good ear for how teenagers talk…it’s about young kids who think a lot about sex, but who are shy and inexperienced and unsure and touchingly committed to concepts like True Love.” > > Ebert also said that Gedde Watanabe, the actor who played Long Duk Dong, “elevates his role from a potentially offensive stereotype to high comedy”. In that case I’m glad he’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/27 "2014-01-15T07:55:06Z")
Yeah, that review is one of many examples of how useless Ebert was. _Sixteen Candles_–and every other pathetic notion of adolescence that Hughes milked–emblematized everything bad about the 80s, and why I couldn’t wait for them to be over. That movie was–and still is–neither funny, nor interesting, nor innovative. It’s an unremarkable piece of crap–a ham-handed attempt to sell the viewer a vapid concept of adolescence, which unfortunately quite a few (like Ebert) bought hook, line and sinker. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/28 "2014-01-15T11:40:01Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > In that case I’m glad he’s dead. Now that’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/29 "2014-01-15T15:08:47Z")
Personally, I liked the movie when it first came out and I still like it. But I’m from the generation that watched all of John Hughes’s movies. Paul Dooley is great as the dad (and was also great as the dad in Breaking Away). Anthony Michael Hall is funny as Farmer Ted (aka the Geek) and both John and Joan Cusack are present in _very_ early roles. (And there’s this bit about how the payoff for the bet was floppy disks, by which they meant the 5.25" kind, which kind of tells you how long ago this was.) And Ebert’s review contains this paragraph, “‘Sixteen Candles’ contains most of the scenes that are obligatory in teenage movies: The dance, the makeout session, the party that turns into a free-for-all. But writer and director John Hughes doesn’t treat them as subjects for exploitation; he listens to these kids. For example, on the night of the dance, Samantha ends up in the shop room with the Geek. They’re sitting in the front seat of an old car. The Geek acts as if he’s sex-mad. Samantha tells him to get lost. Then, in a real departure for this kind of movie, they really start to talk, and it turns out they’re both lonely, insecure, and in need of a good friend.” ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/30 "2014-01-15T15:18:38Z")
“The Breakfast Club” is the most overrated POS…but I generally like Hughes, and I adore "Ferris Bueller …"and “She’s Having a Baby”. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/31 "2014-01-16T13:55:28Z")
As stated in previous threads, it’s not clear who was “in charge” during their sex. She remembers it, he doesn’t. Presumably she was more cognizant during their encounter. Any argument that anyone can put forward that he raped her can equally be applied to “prove” that she raped him. ---
**Author:** ![Happyasaclam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7c8e57/32.png) [@Happyasaclam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happyasaclam)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/32 "2014-01-16T14:19:48Z")
An 80’s classic, and pretty norm for that time period and rat pack of actors. I must be f’d up but I think movie was pretty tame in comparison to the movies that are made NOW depicting our youth. ---
**Author:** ![Happyasaclam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7c8e57/32.png) [@Happyasaclam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happyasaclam)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/33 "2014-01-16T14:25:37Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Are you sure the scene wasn’t supposed to be funny? Because it sure seems like it’s meant to be seen as light and comedic: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf\_sT\_IcMc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmf_sT_IcMc). I’m not picking up on anything that indicates that the filmmakers _intended_ for it to be disturbing that these two guys are having a nice, friendly chat about how easy it would be to rape an unconscious girl. Yes, in teen movies now, they just rape the girl or boy, kill the girl or boy, Or fuck an apple pie or two. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/34 "2014-01-16T14:39:15Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > As stated in previous threads, it’s not clear who was “in charge” during their sex. She remembers it, he doesn’t. Presumably she was more cognizant during their encounter. > > Any argument that anyone can put forward that he raped her can equally be applied to “prove” that she raped him. That still doesn’t excuse the conversation where the jock (who’s supposed prince charming of the story) talks about violating his passed out girlfriend, or the racist Asian character, he’s pretty much the neighbor from Breakfast at Tiffany’s. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/35 "2014-01-16T14:47:53Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Yeah, that review is one of many examples of how useless Ebert was. _Sixteen Candles_–and every other pathetic notion of adolescence that Hughes milked–emblematized everything bad about the 80s, and why I couldn’t wait for them to be over. That movie was–and still is–neither funny, nor interesting, nor innovative. It’s an unremarkable piece of crap–a ham-handed attempt to sell the viewer a vapid concept of adolescence, which unfortunately quite a few (like Ebert) bought hook, line and sinker. _shrug_ I was a teenager when “Sixteen Candles” came out,and it rang with me then and I still like it now. Yes, it wasn’t as PC as we are now, but the basic story was one that hit a chord with most teenage girls, but it wasn’t overly simplistic, stupid, or (IMO) ham-handed. I don’t like all of Hughes’ movies, but this one, I can still watch, and still enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/36 "2014-01-17T03:42:23Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > As stated in previous threads, it’s not clear who was “in charge” during their sex. She remembers it, he doesn’t. Presumably she was more cognizant during their encounter. We are both told and shown that Caroline is so drunk that she’s passed out for a good part of the evening, and during the times that she regains consciousness she’s so out of it that she doesn’t even know who she’s with. Farmer Ted is shown to be sober enough to be trusted with Jake’s car and to have a coherent conversation with Jake…about how easy it would be to rape Caroline and how surprised he is that Jake is passing up the chance to do so. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/37 "2014-01-17T04:08:02Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > As stated in previous threads, it’s not clear who was “in charge” during their sex. She remembers it, he doesn’t. Presumably she was more cognizant during their encounter. I think that’s a big presumption. As a Yankee who was a teen during this era, I see a clear subtext that they didn’t have sex. The more aware person says they didn’t. The girl, on the other (stereotyped) hand, was drunk and was remembering something that didn’t happen. She was filling out the script in her head “I am cute, I was drunk, therefore we must have had sex. Therefore I must pretend I remember having sex.” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/38 "2014-01-17T04:11:29Z")
Whether Farmer Ted had sex with her or not isn’t what I was complaining about in the OP. Him trying to make her pose for the camera like they were amorous was pretty fucking skeevy but just going by what happens on screen this film is fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/39 "2014-01-17T04:14:49Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > That still doesn’t excuse the conversation where the jock (who’s supposed prince charming of the story) talks about violating his passed out girlfriend, or the racist Asian character, he’s pretty much the neighbor from Breakfast at Tiffany’s. The conversation strikes me as realistic, but not necessarily anything more than the usual guy talk of the time. Unlike Mickey Rooney, Gedde Watanabe was actually Asian, and by playing that and other roles helped to open the door for other Asian actors. ETA: Are you complaining about Ken Jeong also? He is most known for playing the same type of character here in the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620/40 "2014-01-17T05:41:47Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Whether Farmer Ted had sex with her or not isn’t what I was complaining about in the OP. Him trying to make her pose for the camera like they were amorous was pretty fucking skeevy but just going by what happens on screen this film is fucked up. An Gadai, you are just going to have to trust that this film was made within a context that you didn’t live and therefore don’t understand. There’s a big joke in that amorous posing routine. The joke is that in high school, no freshman geek would be in the position of having this girlfriend. It simply wouldn’t happen. Ever. Therefore it is funny to watch him try to get the shots to convince his geeky friends that it did happen. Is it a bad, weak, sexist joke? You bet. I have been the victim of untrue rumors about me in order to boost someone else’s sexual reputation and it totally sucks. However, it does happen in high school and happens frequently. Regarding the camera game, remember that this film was made prior to smartphones and texting so no thought was given to those future implications and associated problems. Heck, the local film development lab may not have let the kid have the developed pictures or even the negatives back if there was anything “dirty” about them. Film development companies were allowed to have that level of control. I still find the movie hilarious. You don’t. So be it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/16-candles/678620.md?page=3)